Transcript: Episode 248
248. Emails
Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, fighting stigma about Dissociative Identity Disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org, where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what’s unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshaw on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others. We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community - a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us, including the new monthly meetups that start this month. Go to our web page at www.systemspeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there.
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
[Note: The contents of emails being read in this episode are in italics.]
We have emails. This one says: Dang you guys, so many truth bombs. And it's so hard. We are so proud of you. One, going back to therapy. Two, sharing what you're learning. And three, being so real. We listened to Ghost In the Mirror, and it makes us feel so understood. I don't feel like the therapist is real because we never get to see her physically, we only do teletherapy. I saw her once in a parking lot, but the adults were freaking out because they don't like to be seen or exposed. She is willing to meet us at a park, but we freak out just thinking about it. However, it makes it seem like everyone's safe only on the computer, only dangerous people in real life. That is really hard. It makes me feel like I'm making it up just to stay alive. It hurts my heart. I just want to thank you for sharing your struggles. It really is a lifeline. We love you guys. Oh my goodness, it really is hard.
We are also still only on teletherapy. And I think for the foreseeable future, we're going to stay that way. Just because a risk level with our daughter and because our therapists a little ways away. Which is ironic saying that, since we used to drive four hours one way, right. But yeah, we're not doing that anymore. We are healthier than that. And it was part of the decision for having to leave that therapist was it was just too far away. And so like, besides all the other layers, it was just too far away. And I know Cathy Steel tried to tell us that in the beginning. And so I hate that she was right. But she was right. And so we're just staying on teletherapy for now as well. And it's intense.
And in fact, it's really interesting. Because in the beginning, being on video was super scary because it was such a trigger to us for reasons of our childhood. But now there are things that we can do on video that we could never do in real life. Like, for example, we meet with friends every Sunday afternoon in a consultation group. We would never just show up for that. Like if we had to go see them every Sunday in real life at a meeting in someone's office, like we wouldn't go. We wouldn't, we, ugh. We’re not there yet. And I don't know. Like, I think about that with conferences. Right now we are able to participate in meetings, and in committees, and work groups, and doing all kinds of projects for volunteering for organizations, or ISSTD, or whatever that in real life, no way. That's not happening.
And in fact, you guys, it is the beginning of May when we're recording this. So it'll air, I don't know, August maybe. But we just got for the first time our request to attend in-person meetings in the fall in October. And I don't know what that will look like by then. But just as far as receiving that first request out of quarantine, and the UN meetings, and NGO stuff, the disaster work and warzone work that we were doing before, which has obviously intensified this week with Palestine and Israel. And so they're asking they're like, “We need you back. We need you on the ground. We, are you available for deployment.” And we're like, “Ummm.”
You guys, I really don't know that we'll do it again. I really don't think that we will. I think that we have found a safer way to live that is more comfortable, and have found ways to balance that in healthy ways socially with the children, and the way that they can have friends from youth group on different video meetings and in person when it safe. And we have found, and we're in so many support groups right now that I really feel like we're getting the support and socialization that we need. And really as much as we can handle. And I don't think life will ever be the same for us like it was before. I think it is better. I think we have made progress. But I don't know that it will be in person as much. So I'm not sure how that's gonna play out. But it's like this inside out derealization. Like, how does that shift, that perception in my brain? Like, I don't even know. But that's good stuff. Thank you for sharing.
We want to thank Heather who donated a book to a survivor. And so we just wanted to let Heather know we sent that book off today to someone on the waiting list. And thank you again, for those of you who have gotten the book, who have shared your thoughts about it, and who have supported the podcast or the book as we continue trying to reach out to the community to support and educate about dissociative identity disorder.
Lisa says: I can't wait to hear more of your fairy tale. I'm so happy you have this therapist. Your journey to her was long and hard. But she seems like a wonderful fit for you all. That's so funny. You know what? It's almost like that was our epic journey just to get to therapy. So that's pretty interesting. We are still with her. We've been with her since January, I think, February. And so it's been several months now. And it's going very well. I mean, I hate therapy, but that's not about her. [Laughter] That about therapy is hard. But it's actually going really really well. And we are grateful that we have found her. She has been worth it. And we have not written more of that fairy tale yet, as far as the recording today when I am recording this. I have not written anymore. So I know we need to get on our homework. But we are getting there. Then Lisa says: Hallelujah. And please consider publishing the fairy tale upon completion. I love the first bit you shared and want more. Kudos. Oh, Lisa, that's so sweet. That's a super good idea. We're working on two other books right now, both for survivors. So we'll talk about them on the podcast, but not yet. You'll just have to wait. But that's exciting. And as always, we appreciate your encouragement.
The D&R system says: Hi, I am an AMAB age 62 was who was diagnosed with DID. It was something we coped with and remained covert. We did not understand and never disclose to anyone. Once DID was explained, our whole life now makes sense. We enjoy your podcast, and I'm thankful for the way you educate about DID and how it is okay to be this way. Your podcast, we have listened to every episode and look forward to new ones as they are posted. The Ghost In the Mirror episode was about a book The Stranger In the Mirror. We are reading the book but found it unsettling as it describes people with DID as potentially dangerous and that we may kill someone. Oh my goodness. We didn't read that or get that out of it at all. They give a quote from chapter five, “The amnesia that once banished overwhelmingly painful experiences from consciousness and helped the person survive has turned into a deadly threat.” I think that's true, but I think that's a deadly threat for me. [Laughter]
Having to struggle, and the big feelings, and the like, um. That's just how hard it is to get through. Like, that trauma is still there and unprocessed. So it's almost like a matrix, like in slow motion, like it's still happening. And that's a danger to those parts of me that are stuck in Memory Time. That is a danger to me through reenactments in self-harm or relationships or danger to self. I don't think it necessarily means about hurting other people. Although there are a few few cases of that, but very few. I think mostly it's just about how hard we are on ourselves. But that's because we have never experienced goodness or kindness, or so rarely have, until we get into treatment or find safe people or build our own support systems. Which has in the last few months made all the difference to us.
They said: We are happy to now know who we are and why we are. We have accepted our past trauma and abuse. It happened. But the fact that so and so—I don't want to say their name—is a part of our system was difficult for us to accept being unable to accept her as part of us cause more trauma, and she was always acting out on her own behind a wall of amnesia. Now that we are learning-. So I think that's an example of that deadly threat, right? When, when there's not that cohesion or that communication or everyone understanding why there's a system or what's going on, that's when people get into dangerous situations.
They say: Now that we are learning to accept us as we are, it is better, although few people know about us. We are not trans. We are not gay. We are multiple. I would love to hear an episode on dealing with opposite sex alters in the system. Thanks, D&R system. That's actually a good idea. We can talk about that some more directly. And I think that that brought up, we've actually gotten a lot of questions about that since the episode with Dr. Himes, because there are many people in the trans population. And opposite sex alters are not the same thing as trans. And so with all due respect to the trans community, and as much as we love Dr. Himes, this is a piece we haven't talked about much for trigger reasons of ourselves. But maybe we can get someone to come on and kind of have a conversation with us, and we can talk about it that way more safely. Because it's absolutely part of DID. Thank you for the suggestion.
Holly says: I finished your book. What an amazing job you did telling your story illustrating what DID looks like and how it manifests, and how to work to heal trauma, how to work to increase system wide communication in order to heal and to improve functioning. I love how you finished with hope for the future. I thought Chapter 86 was very powerful in explaining how shame develops from abuse. Thank you for having the courage to be completely vulnerable and share your story with the world. I know it is going to make a difference for so many people. I hope the book sales are going well. Oh, that's so kind Holly. Holly also said she found a typo. So, Holly, you need to send me that typo so we can fix it. [Laughter] I mean, I know there's lots in those final blurry chapters. But there you go. That's so funny. Thank you, Holly. You're such a cheerleader for us, and you've been such a good friend and encourager. We so appreciate you.
Brooke says: I just got done reading your book. It was amazing. So sorry for all the things you have experienced. You are truly an inspiration and a superstar. What you are doing is so courageous and brave. I truly feel you are changing the tide on trauma, and the struggles people face when they have experienced trauma, and helping people become strong enough to get the help they need and want. I am not DID but have experienced trauma in my life. You give me hope. Thank you for everything you're doing. Oh, Brooke, that's so kind of you. Thanks for giving us feedback about the book. Thank you. I am so glad you enjoyed it, and I appreciate your encouragement, truly. Thank you.
Amanda says: Just checking in to say I'm still here and still care. Just listened to most of ovaries today, though I didn't quite get through it. Will finish tomorrow. Sending virtual hugs to all your parts—well, just for those who don't mind--and hoping for a bit smoother sailing as you emerge from the isolation of the past year. I too have mixed feelings about coming out of lockdown. I've unexpectedly enjoyed being a bit of a hermit. Right? Exactly. So, I'm not sure. It really shifted things for a lot of people. I think it will be interesting. You all are amazing. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you Amanda for the encouragement.
Justin says: Hi, I am listening to your podcast while writing an assignment on it for my high school Psychology class. I don't want to sound insensitive about how it affects you. So I was wondering how I would phrase the reason you started the podcast. It says Sasha-. What? It says Sasha first came up with the idea to start a podcast. But I went from talking about Emma to trying to talk about Sasha, and I'm not sure how to make that transition without sounding rude or uneducated on the matter, which I am. I was wondering if you could shed some light on how you would describe it. Um, I think it's just called switching. Is that what you mean? I don't know. I think you're just talking about switching. So, I think that's the word. See if that helps. You can look on DID-research.org or something like that for a lot more information, or facts on ISSTD, or the plural Association has a blog with lots of articles explaining about DID, so I hope some of those are good resources that help you.
So my friend Jay. I want to tell you about Jay. Jay is super excited to get a shout out on the podcast. So hello Jay. I'm so grateful for you and for your help, your system. They have supported the podcast and given a donation to specifically help store the files, which are very large sound files, so that all of the podcast episodes can remain online. And this is something that we get charged for quarterly. And it's kind of a big deal. So I want to give Jay a shout out and say thank you so much for your help and your support. And that's very kind of you. And I hope that sometime you want to come on the podcast just for fun. We can have an easy conversation. It doesn't even have to be about anything specific. But you were a delight to email. And so would be super fun to talk if you really do want to be on the podcast.
And thank you for your support, truly, everyone. We are so grateful for those who continue to support the podcast and encouraging us to keep doing it. Because, wooo, it's a lot. It's a lot. Thank you guys.
JC says: Hi there. It's been quite a while since I wrote in and I hope everyone is doing well. Life in the pendemic has been interesting, and not in a good way, with lots of life changes. In so many ways this podcast has been a lifeline for us. And we wanted to thank you all for continuing even with all the challenges you face. Thank you so much. Oh, my goodness. It really was a hard thing. Oh, my goodness. I'm sorry it was so intense. But that was also what the year was like. I think it's just a reflection of that as much as what happened internally.
They said: I have a question about EMDR. We have been in therapy after a long therapy break with this therapist for about two and a half years now, and have made amazing progress even through the pandemic and all the fun life threw at us. Yeah. I getcha. Oh my goodness. A little over a year ago, we started EMDR and it worked beautifully. Since then it's been a mix of EMDR and other therapies as well. We just had a three month therapy break due to life circumstances, but continued to work on our stuff. We had a lot of amnesia barriers and blocks fall, a lot of memories got shared, and some people can no longer take emotions from others. So now those alters have to feel what they feel. It's supposedly progress, even though it's not feeling like it. That sounds like flooding. Which is too much. That's not the same as being able to tolerate what's going on. So, I'm not sure because I'm not you, and I know this just the podcast email. But it sounds like that's some flooding is happening, which is not quite the same as being able to share with each other.
They said: We feel-. We had therapy two days ago and tried EMDR. It was completely different. We had flooding-. Oh yeah, there you go. We had flooding of memories and emotions. People were getting pulled to the right behind the front, and it was chaotic. We have never had that happen in the last year of doing EMDR. The only thing that changed since last time was the supposed progress. Wow. So, oh my goodness. We've had such a limited basic training. I'm not sure that we can even answer that question. But what it sounds like is that something got triggered and too much was brought up too fast, and not enough was resolved and contained in the process. So I would go back to like safety and calmness and focus on that and see what is going on. Because it sounds like something, something didn't quite go right there. And this is really a big deal with EMDR. Because EMDR can be very helpful, but it can also be a disaster. And I don't think we talked about that, and and it's only one aspect.
The other thing is you have to remember that EMDR is more than just the eye movements. Like, the entire therapy experience, all the phases or steps or stages of therapy leading up to and before and after the eye movements themselves, are all part of EMDR. So if the eye movements are not working, make sure you go back to what are the early stages about safety. Not just safety and stabilization, but what are those orienting things and that your safe place and your calm place and those kinds of things. Like, talk to your therapist about those things and get things settled and safe first, before doing more of that. Or it's really, really important for therapists who have EMDR training, but do not have trauma training, for EMDR to go badly quickly. So it can be amazing tool, but it is not the only thing that's helpful, and it can be too much very fast. And there is a lot that can really even rule out someone with DID or CPTSD from being ready for things like eye movements. So you have to be super, super careful about that.
Oh, that hurts my heart. I'm sorry it's been so hard. That's just. Ugh. You need safety, safety, safety.
They say: So here's my question. When doing EMDR with DID clients, is that normal? Does it work to a point as you progress then suddenly become not effective? It's been two days and our host is still getting stuck in emotional flashbacks and flooding of other emotions. Are there good resources that I can pass on to my therapist on how to deal with this, if it is a normal thing? So it is never normal for you to be left in danger. It is never normal for you to feel unsafe. Challenging, yes. Difficult, maybe. But unsafe should never be a part of therapy, ever, period, of any kind of therapy.
Okay. So if this is too much, what I would suggest is finding someone who is DID specifically trained, like really knows their stuff—like ISSTD, someone—who maybe also knows about EMDR, and connect them with your therapist for a consultation. So maybe contact ISSTD and ask them if there's someone who also knows EMDR, who's available to consult with you. Jamie Marich also does a lot of EMDR and knows some about DID. So that would be another option. I would honestly, I would, I, if it were me-. I don't know what to tell you because I can't, I can't give you clinical advice. And I have to be really careful about that. But if it were me, and that were happening to me, I would ask my therapist to get a consult with someone from ISSTD. And even that's not a given. Like, even that's not a given. But, but someone qualified to consult in this case. But specifically for that. Not like on an ongoing basis. Not a transfer you instead of, but-. And I don't want to give names. Like, there are several people that I would feel safe saying, “Hey, your therapist should talk to this person because they understand DID and EMDR, both of them, enough to be able to help.” But I don't know that they're available for consultation. So I can't just start dropping names for you. But that's what I would do as starting place is maybe contact ISSTD and ask if there is someone available to help with that. So I will send you an email about that.
They said: We are scared to do this particular section of our childhoods through talk mostly because we are scared of losing the therapist if she can't handle the trauma. Oh, that hurts my heart, but it's also a valid issue. And it's a very painful thing when you have a therapist who either cannot handle the trauma because it's too much for them, or because they don't care for themselves well enough, or because they are not responsive enough. Because other pieces, connection is enough, presence is enough. But to do the relational trauma and early trauma pieces, it has to be responsive as well. And that is difficult to find someone who can do both.
They said: We lost one therapist when we were younger because they cannot handle it. And we are terrified that will happen again. I feel you. I understand. We've been through that with so many Kelly's, as we say, we have been through that so much. And it's so painful. It is so painful. And it is like one big trauma in some ways, almost worse than anything we went through as a child. And so I understand. I feel you. I feel you. I don't mean to speak to your experience, but I feel the depth of that.
They said: This one has helped more than any other therapists we have had in the last 19 years. So JC, if they've been so helpful, then that's a lot of evidence that they're trying and that they're well intentioned, and that they have given you evidence that you feel safe to some degree. So I think in that context, it's okay to talk to them directly and explicitly about that you are being flooded and not feeling safe, that something has shifted and changed, and that that needs to be addressed before anything else happens. So whether that's a consult for them or something else, like addressing that directly, it sounds like you have a solid enough relationship therapeutically with them to be able to dress it directly. And I'm just telling you as a person of experience who avoided that, or was not able to do that, or did not know how to say what I needed, it really caused like exponential problems than if I had just said, “Hey, this is when this happens, this is a problem for me, and here's why, and here's what I need.” Like, we didn't know how to do that a year ago, or five years ago, or 10 years ago, and it caused things to be way harder than they had to be. So one of the most powerful things you can learn is how to just advocate for yourself in those ways and communicate that directly. Thank you for sharing, JC.
Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for writing in. Thank you for supporting us. I actually feel pretty emotional, just for a moment, of the depth of my gratitude for the listeners and for supporters of the podcast. This is the beginning of May and it's actually the last podcast we're recording for the whole summer. So the podcast will continue on its own, but we've worked ahead so that we can take the summer off and have a break from the podcast. And then we will meet you at the end of August and catch things up a bit and keep the podcast going as much as we are able and as we can support it. And so thank you so much truly for your encouragement and your support. And I hope that you have enjoyed your summer and that we can continue our healing together in the fall. Thank you so much for listening.
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.