Transcript: Episode 101
101. Sasha’s Emails
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Hello, everybody! I’ve got some emails to read before we dish. The first email is from Jacinta. I hope I said that right. It’s a beautiful name. The email says, “Thank you so much for your podcast. I/We are struggling to come to accept the diagnosis of DID, and listening to your podcast is incredibly helpful. I personally have Parts that relate to Dr. E and Emma. I struggle to have time to watch videos and I spend a lot of time in my car driving to appointments. You guys are a real blessing. Keep up the great work.”
Oh, thanks! That’s so encouraging. And I totally agree with you about “we can’t watch videos.” For some reason, that just does not work for us. We’ve watched maybe a handful, but seriously, probably not more than five. It’s just too much and overwhelming and somehow it triggers us a bit. So I’m glad it’s a great resource for so many, but you are exactly right. That is why we started the podcast, because we wanted more information to be available that you can listen to and not just have to watch the videos. So I’m glad that you’re liking that. It’s also so funny that you say that you relate to Dr. E because I do not. [Laughs] I’m just kidding. And seriously though, I was talking to Julie on the phone this week, on the way home from therapy, and she was talking about Emma’s podcast recently, and said to stop with the birds. So I don’t know what Emma’s doing…talking about the birds and all of that. And I’m glad you relate to her, but I just -- they bore me. I can’t listen to either of them. And I did ask about the birds and all the birds chirping, and Julie was making fun of the cicadas [Laughs] -- you know the ones that are not crickets. The ones with the really creepy shells. I don’t know how to say the work - ci-cica-[laughs]. I can’t do it.
But anyway, here’s what I can explain about that. For people who have been annoyed by Emma’s emo lately, part of it’s just because we’re dealing with Africa. Okay? What happened was really hard and we’re still dealing with that. We’ve also kind of entered a new realm of therapy. I don’t know how to explain it. And things are just harder in a different way and so we’re processing, I think, in a different way. And she’s out more and engaging more and participating more in different ways. But we also have one who does a lot of poetry, and so clearly that’s not Julie’s thing, and that’s okay. She can mock it. Whatever. But that’s her thing - the one who writes it. And so if Emma’s sharing that or feeling her close, it’s a way she is learning to express words and to get in touch with her -- I don’t know how to explain it.
You can’t process in therapy if you don’t have words. And Emma does not have words. And we have one -- no, a few -- I would say a few -- who can paint. And we have relied a lot on the notebooks with the rest of us writing and her trying to read with the therapist, which doesn’t work or happen. We are just now getting to that point, almost, we’re so close. But we are understanding that that’s a thing, that we can be present in therapy and that we can let her be present in therapy, but also the rest of us can still listen. It doesn't have to be an either, or thing. We can work together. We’re learning how to listen, and so sometimes now -- this is very new, but sometimes now when we go to therapy, a lot of us can be there at the same time. That doesn’t mean all of us can interact and I forgot the word she said it was called. The therapist told her. I don’t remember. But sometimes she can’t get out or front and control what’s happening, but she’s aware of what’s happening. And that is brand new. But also, sometimes we can let her stay and kind of deal with things and process a bit, but we can still be aware of what’s going on and watching. And I’m always watching. But I don’t know anything about birds and cicadas or cicadas or whatever they’re called. [Laughs] And so I’m sorry if it’s all been too emo lately. It’s just been really hard, and she is very much working on being grounded and in the present and using her surroundings to know what’s going on and where she’s at. So that’s probably more for her than it is for you. So if you don’t like it, Julie, you can just [click of the tongue] listen to another podcast, my friend. [Laughs]
Moving on! It’s just -- she’s just learning and I think two things are happening. Number one, I think she’s just trying to stay grounded enough she could actually do a podcast. And number two -- and so that’s why she’s talking about what she’s hearing and seeing and feeling and what the world around her is like. So I think she’s practicing being grounded. I don’t think that she’s trying to do an entertaining podcast. It’s not about entertaining Julie. That is not why we do the podcast. [Laughs] I can entertain Julie, and except for when she makes fun of my driving. But I think that’s what’s happening. I didn’t listen to all of that, but from what I understand, from what Julie said, that is what I think is what’s happening. She’s just trying to stay grounded enough to talk and like sharing and being away and she has to be very conscious and intentional about it. So just be patient with her and/or skip those episodes. She’s just learning and it’s brand new.
The second thing that I think is happening is that the Ones who are having words -- we have -- I don’t know why this is how it’s divided up for us - maybe because of our hearing issues, or maybe because the mother was a librarian so words just actually play into things in a really big way. I don’t know. But we kind of have two that hold the words and one of them only writes in the notebook in poems. It’s super annoying and boring and I don’t read them, but the therapist likes them, and it works for them. And so that’s great. And then the other One is a Little who is good at telling the stories that another One can paint. So One of them can paint and the other One can tell the stories about it. And so we’re having to use a lot of poetry and music and art to sort of help therapy, because there are some things that we can express in those ways, that no one can just outright say yet. So I’m sorry that we’re so slow in the process and I’m sorry that it’s not always fun stuff to talk about on the podcast, but that’s where we’re at and we think that’s what’s going on. So I hope that answers the question and eases things up as far as why it’s been a little different. Everything’s fine. We’re learning and just trying out some new things as part of therapy, which is what we talk about, right, so those of you who are into poems, you can read the sappy poems and listen to all the news about the birds and the cicadas or cicadas. Is there an “r” in that word? I don’t even know, you guys?
But anyway, that’s all that’s happening…is we’re just trying to get it out there. We’re also doing more painting and not just doing more painting, but we’re starting to share some of our paintings, which is actually a really big deal and new for us. And so I don’t know if that will happen more and more or if that’s just a fluke. But the same thing is happening there. So like we have One who can draw and paint really, really well with -- it’s called -- what is it called -- acrylics. She can do acrylics, like fancy nerd town painting, okay, they’re amazing. Emma is trying to learn how to paint and when she is trying to learn how to paint, she can get closer to that one who really can paint, and kind of gets in the zone where she can get some information and some pictures and some visuals about what we’re working on in therapy. That is the best I can explain it, except she’s using different kinds of paints and so not using acrylics, she can’t use acrylics. It’s not as good as what the other One can do. I’m just telling you. But the water colors are kind of very transient for her and so it’s a specific kind of water colors. And so she can’t paint in acrylics. I’m just telling you. She can’t paint in acrylics like the other One can, but she’s learning how to use the specific kind of water colors, and they move like all transient like. And so it’s almost like dissociative on purpose. I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s the same thing as with the poetry with the other One. It’s a way of getting access and a way of connecting and a way of sharing space, but it doesn’t mean we’re good at it yet.
And so Emma maybe cannot be very entertaining while she’s talking about chirping birds and she maybe cannot paint with watercolors very well, as much as the other One can paint with acrylics, but it’s progress, and it’s connection, and it’s something that we’re learning. And so I think it counts. I think it’s legitimate and so we’re just going to leave it, because we’re making progress, I think. I think.
So I’m sorry about the chirping birds. Let me just offer my public apology and I’m sorry about the cicadas singing or whatever that that was about, but it’s just a piece of the process for her and where we’re at and what’s going on.
The third piece about that is healing happens for us outside, and there’s something very nurturing and healing for us when we are outside. So that definitely interferes with the quality of the podcast. You don’t listen to real podcasts out there with background noise, unless it’s like NPR and it’s a super cool interview and you’re in the subway or something. But no, seriously, I know the sound quality is important in a podcast. At the same time, some of our best processing happens outside. And so we have decided to just let go and not be all anxious or OCD about the sound as much as getting our words down, because at the very least, the podcast is for us and for the team inside. And so we’re trying to be brave and bold in sharing it in case it helps other people with healing or just saying things out loud. But it does mean we’re just us and we’re outside. And besides being outside being so healing, part of that is not just because the outdoors are awesome or we now live in a cool place where we can be outdoors safely -- part of it has to do with healing specific stuff that happened to us when we were little on the farm or in the woods. And so exposing ourselves to those environments and trying to be around them or in them and in safe ways is very powerful to Others inside.
The other piece of that is that Emma and Em specifically, have pretty much been stuck inside a hospital -- I guess Molly too, because of work. But they have been stuck inside the hospital because of the baby being sick for four years. And so we literally have not gotten to go swimming in four years. We have not gotten to be out in the sunshine in four years, unless it was going from the hospital to our car or from the car to the hospital. And so it started actually the year before that when we got cancer it - it was summer time. When we had surgery and we missed the whole summer. And then the spring after that, the youngest baby was born. We got custody of her and went to the hospital with her and never really came out. And so the environment of being outside has been liberating and healing for us as part of now time being safe - that we are no longer just stuck in the hospital, either for ourselves or for our daughter. And that is healing, because both of our parents worked in the VA. And so we grew up in the VA hospital all the time. So it has been four years of some really big triggers that we could not get away from.
And so a shout out to the VA. The VA is awesome. I’m not dissing the VA. I’m just saying that it’s significant to us to be out of doors, or outside, in nature, in a way we have not had access to for almost five years. So that’s part of why it’s a big deal and I’m not trying to throw Julie under the bus. I’m just explaining, because if she brought it up, then other people are wondering too or asking questions about it. But I want to explain part of why that’s a thing as part of our culture of the podcast. Ba-bam. I hope that makes sense.
But thanks for the email and I’m glad that hanging out with Dr. E and Emma is good for you. Totally respect that it’s not good for everybody, the same way as I am the cool one, but some people don’t like my laugh. It just is. This is who we are and I can open up a little bit about why we are, but I’m also not going to change it because it’s important that we just are who we are and it just is. So everybody who likes poetry and painting and all the nerdy things, music, like legit music -- The Husband can play legit music on his violin. Hoo! He plays with a symphony. I don’t know if I’ve ever told you guys that, but he can rock it on the violin. Well, it’s not really rock. It’s like nerd town music, you know. But anyway, so to each his own, and I’m glad we’re all different, and that is what makes us special, right, and such a good team, because we can work together, because everybody’s different. And I have the role of not working. [Laughs] That’s what’s different for me.
Anyway, thank you for the email. That was a really long answer to an email for questions she didn’t actually ask. [Laughs]
Okay, the next one is from Julie. Oh! This is from Julie, but it’s not my friend, Julie. It’s a different Julie who is also my friend, Julie. So now there are lots of Julie’s. That’s not going to make Julie happy. [Laughs] Poor Julie! You’re on the podcast today, Julie. I should have just called you. I can hear her saying, “Yes! You should have. I’ve been waiting already.”
Okay anyway, so this other Julie says, “Hi. I’m really enjoying the podcast. Thank you for braving it through. I’m just coming to realize that this lifetime of my inner-world experience and experiences may be DID or at least possibly OSDD. Some experiences seem very indefinite, others more clearcut, but still very slippery.” Dude, you guys, dissociation is so slippery. [Laughs] I’m going to say that forever now. It’s so true, Julie. Dissociation is very slippery. That’s a good word for how it feels.
She says, “Forgive me if you’ve answered this in an episode that I haven’t yet heard, but I’m wondering if you could talk about how you discovered your DID for yourself?” Oh yeah, I can talk about that. “Did you have an idea that before being told by a therapist? What were you noticing that made you think that this was perhaps not typical of other people and when did your Others introduce themselves by name, in their own voice, or did you, as host, kind of intuitively hear their names and story, or both?”
Okay, there’s so much here to unpack. Okay, there’s more. “And do you remember what age you were when your first Other appeared to you? Or would you say it was something you as a child, more consciously imagined in order to soothe or both?” Oh wow, and then she’s got some more.
But before I get there, let me answer these questions. So she has a very long email with lots of questions and they’re amazing. So let me kind of break it down. Going back to her first question, she said, “I’m wondering if you could talk about how you discovered your DID for yourself?” So for us, I think that depends on who you ask, because it’s different for everybody, right?
So for me, I just already knew. Here I am and I know that I’m me and I know that there are Others. So…that’s a thing. Dr. E has shared on podcasts she’s done -- so I’m not telling something I’m not supposed to tell of someone else’s story -- Dr. E has shared that she didn’t know at all we were diagnosed at 17 and in therapy for two years before she found out about it. And then when she found out about it, she did not like it, panicked, and we totally bailed therapy for like 10 years. Okay, so then, she tried to continue fighting through work or whatever it is she does doing her thing, and then when the parents died everything fell apart, because that was too much and she couldn’t ignore it anymore. And that’s when we had to start finding a new therapist, which took awhile, and was kind of a process in and of itself. So that’s that.
And then Emma had a completely different experience where she just was aware of losing time, was aware of sometimes hearing voices, was aware of sometimes having flashbacks, was aware of sometimes having nightmares, and had to be told, repeatedly, so many times [laughs], in therapy, that it was because of DID. And what DID was and that the rest of us are here and that she doesn’t have to be afraid of us. We’ve been over it a thousand times. I can’t even tell you. Our therapist should get an award or like a billion dollars just for repeating this conversation over and over and over with her. [Laughs] -- and Others too. So when you count her level of denial, and like the rest of us that all need to be on the same page, and be told the same information, we’ve pretty much spent a year having this conversation over and over and over. So it’s a hard thing to settle and to face and to understand. And then you have this big emotional response that can come after you know. And then you kind of have to work through all those layers again. And then that gives you more information, which you then have to work through again.
So getting a diagnosis, much less accepting it, is absolutely a process and a really big deal. So yeah, some of us knew before we were told by a therapist, some of us understood before we were told by a therapist, and some of us knew, but did not understand, and others didn’t know or understand. You got that? So I think it just is different depending on who you’re talking to and who you’re asking.
As far as what we were noticing that made us think that that was not typical of other people -- I think that also depends on who you ask, because I just thought everybody was like this. So, I didn’t know it was maladaptive or a-typical. I didn’t know that. I don’t know how the Others knew it was different. I think Dr. E has talked about not -- I don’t know if it was on the podcast or just with the husband -- but I think she’s talked about how she realized that other people didn’t struggle so much with scheduling, like tracking time, in the same way that she struggles with tracking time or knowing what’s going on. And I don’t know about Emma. I could ask her. I could ask her and let you know, but that’s all I know about that.
I think that’s different -- when we knew about the Others is different for everybody as well, which kind of ties into your next question about Others introducing themselves by name and voice or if we intuitively heard their names in story or both. I think that’s something that’s going to be different for not just every system, but every person, like everybody, but also different for every Alter. Because I know that I just knew people. When I came, when the first things I can remember, I just already knew everybody. Dr. E has had to work to get to know people and she doesn’t really want to know people. [Laughs] For Emma, we’ve had to make an entire notebook of introductions and explaining who we are and explaining things that we want or don’t need or triggers or finding ways to communicate with each other. And then other people, you just know. And some of the Little’s especially kind of grew up together. And so I think they’ve just always known.So what the looks like for different people is going to be different depending on who you ask - both the Alter and the System.
And then your next question was about what age you were when your first Other appeared to you. So nobody just appears to me, but I know what you mean. And I think that was just from the beginning -- it was just different. So no one appeared to Dr. E, because her function was to separate and not know what was happening at home so we could deal with school. So she never had Others just appear to us, which is why she was in such denial when the diagnosis came. Right? And so -- but for Others -- like we have two that are little, where one is for the father and one is for the mother, and I don’t know how young that started, or at what point they knew about each other. I’m not really -- that was before me and I’m not really privy to that information. That’s on a whole different circle. So I don’t know how else to understand that, but I’m sure that it maybe is also one of those things that’s different for everybody - inside and different Systems.
Would you say it’s something you, as a child, more consciously imagined in order to soothe? I don’t know. I do know the story of one -- and we’ve shared this story on the podcast before -- where leaving home and going to school was a big trauma. It was actually a good thing, because it got us out of the house, but we didn’t know it was going to be a good thing. And so that’s sort of how Dr. E came about - to go off to kindergarten and it was raining and she was foggy and so there was this window, and she saw our reflection in the window, but that didn’t match how she imagined herself. And there’s a scene from Anne of Green Gables where Anne looks in the glass and talks to her friend, Katie, and so in this instance -- not everybody inside -- in this instance, that’s kind of where Katie got her name and began to draw on the window and began to draw on the artwork at school and kind of came from that way, in that direction. That was sort of the beginning of that, but she’s not “a fictive”. It’s not like she was a character from the book. But that image, of seeing her reflection, reminded her of the scene from that story. And so in that way it was kind of an imagination in that case -- not in an intentional way, but kind of in an unfolding way.
Which is so funny, because those two are such opposites. Dr. E’s really logical and the other One’s really artistic, but I don’t know if the Others can -- like that was just before me and I feel like that is a really triggering and really hard thing to talk about and go back that far. And so I think part of it is that I don’t know and part of it is that I’m not ready to even go there. So I’ll just leave the boundary in place and I think it’s going to be different for everyone. But I hope it answers the question.
And then her email goes on. She asks more questions. She says, “Do you personally feel that there is a core or a center or a main self - one that some people may refer to you as the true you? Or do you, as the host, feel that the true you is your system collectively?”
Woo! That’s a big question. That is a really big question. So again, that’s something that’s going to be different for every single system. Okay? But what I can tell you is that what we have learned from Dr. E, from the structural dissociation theory that is the newest research -- although it’s not really new now -- but the latest theory, and it is just a theory. There’s some people who are really adamant about this is what happens and how it happens and how things are set up. But I don’t think that you can say, across the board about anyone, this is how all people are made. I feel like that is a very limiting perspective and kind of -- I don’t know. It’s fishy somehow. But it does explain more things differently than they have been explained in the past. Okay, so in the past, if you look in the old books about DID -- like from the 80s -- they’re going to talk about a core or a center or the original person and everything before that, we’ll talk about that.
But with the structural dissociation theory, the idea is -- and I’m sorry if I can’t do this as well as Dr. E -- but what I understand -- what -- the way I get it is that nobody is born with just a center or a core. And that everyone has these personality states as a baby and a young toddler, and that as you grow up, part of the development of the personality is integrating these different aspects of who you are into the whole person that you become as you grow up. And so the idea is that trauma interferes with that process and so you’re not able to combine those different aspects of who you are.
And so now, because of that understanding, there are lots of people -- like even some online support groups…you cannot talk about any other concept besides that one, because of the research. And that’s fine. That may explain the development of personality, and it may explain the development or personality for people with trauma and without trauma. I get that. I’m not at all arguing with that. But what I can tell you is that within the context of the way that we developed that that is not necessarily the case, or that we are conscious of it in a different way.
So, I’m not arguing with the theory, but I am saying that we’re not necessarily set up like that. In some ways I can see how it reflects that - absolutely. Even having One for the mother and One for the father is kind of indicative of that. So I get it and I’m not arguing with that, but I will also tell you that the very young Little’s all talk about The Girl - like it’s capitalized “T’, capitalized “G”, The Girl. And that the very young Little’s can say, “I came because this happened and when this happened” and They will tell about it. Like it’s hard to talk about, because I can’t tell Their stories, and we try really hard not to just trauma dump on the podcast. But there are specific things that happened that were hard and overwhelming and we cannot get away from that there are some of the Littles that are absolutely tied to those moments. And that is about the memory of what happened not being processed in our brain as a whole memory. And we know about this from the polyvagal theory and from how the brain works and all of that. Dr. E can tell you and explain.
So there’s some place between personality development and the impact of trauma in the brain, where there’s an overlap of space that gives room for there to be some flexibility. So do we have a core or a center or a main self? No. But is there something or someone that they refer to as not necessarily an original, but a shadow of who should have been? Yes. So I don’t know if that concept makes sense and I know it’s a pretty tricky subject and some people will be really sensitive to it and I don’t really want to explain more because -- at least on the podcast -- we could talk about it privately if you want -- but it’s also not really appropriate for us to just hand out a map of the entire system so everyone in the world can have access to it. [Laughs] That’s not cool. [Laughs] So I don’t want to do that just for safety, but I would say no.
As far as who is the true you, I agree with what you are saying about the true me is the system as a collective. We have made enough progress to say that and to understand that, but that’s new that we understand that. Because I am not Dr. E, I can not tell you absolutely for freakin’ sure that that is not true. [Laughs] And I don’t know anything about chirping birds. Okay? So that is absolutely -- there are differences and distinctions and some of the Nerd Town episodes that Dr. E has done or interviews that they have done can explain more about what that experience is like. Even that recent EMDR one with the Soloman guy. He was all about explaining how DID works and about the brain and different -- I don’t even know the right words for it. You’ll have to listen to it.
So there’s absolutely distinctions and there are limits to that. Guys, I don’t care how crazy it sounds, but I physically and literally cannot remember some of the things that the Others know. I literally don’t know the nerd stuff that Dr. E knows. I don’t have access to that. I don’t sit around thinking about those things. I honestly don’t even care about those things. Okay so there are distinctions and differences, but I also have made enough progress in therapy to be able to honor that while also understanding that we all share a body, and that all together, the presentation is the true us.
And so I think that that’s important, because it’s part of working together as a team and understanding that the Others are as important as I am, which is progress for me, actually, to even be able to say that out loud, because I’m the coolest and what I want matters. [Laughs] But I think that that’s an important piece and so it’s a good question that you’re asking.
But I also think, even though some of the people who would disagree with what I said, also still acted out, because most people with DID…it’s actually a very covert thing. We are good at presenting a self that people interact with and that we respond with all the time, whether that’s through switching or through team work or through whatever it is that when they’re there and other People are there too -- I don’t know what that word is. But however it works, most people -- even though it happens and there are moments where you’re like, “That was not me and I don’t even know what you’re talking about” -- the stranger you just met at the grocery story -- even though those kinds of moments happen -- for the most part, because of survival, DID is actually a very covert thing. There are some people, through therapy and self awareness work and teamwork as a system, become very overt. Some of the Plural Pride stuff is an example of that. They want to be out and about and acknowledged as the team that they are. And that is fantastic. That is great. More power to them.
But that is a chosen thing. It’s not how it was when they were young and there was trauma, necessarily. And again, I’m talking about trauma specific DID. I think it’s going to be different for everyone and there will be many systems even who disagree with me, but I think that they still try to function as a whole, because that’s the part that’s hard about DID. That’s why we get treatment, because of when functioning is interfered with, right, when we can’t function and when things are too hard, and when things are too much. And it may initially look like anxiety or panic attacks or depression or whatever, but ultimately it’s all this other stuff going on.
The next thing she asks is, “Do you or did you have a persecutor and what is that like for you if you do?” That is a loaded question and one likely to get me in trouble. [Laughs] So when we talk about persecutors -- and I don’t want to do an entire episode on this right now -- I’m willing to do one later with more preparation [laughs] and some safety in place, but I don’t want to just outrightly talk about it for a long time right now.
But very briefly, basically a persecutor is an Alter that’s working against the system or against specific Alters and so called persecuting them or the host or sabotaging things - any kinds of things you want to fill in with that… sometimes even harming them. Often -- not always -- don’t get Dr. E after me on here, because she can explain it differently and better -- but often these people inside, either have a need that is not being met, or they have struggles that have not been prioritized - so they’re not getting the help that they need. Or they are acting out what was done to the system years ago. So like they’re often stuck in memory time and mad about now time nonsense. Does that make sense? Not always. There are some who are also specifically trained to do certain things and all of this I’ll talk about another time. I don’t want to talk about it today. But that is very common in many systems. Yes. That’s about as much as I can answer right now. Okay? Go me for using coping skills and boundaries.
“How do you feel about the language and terms used to describe DID, like host?” Host just means whoever’s out front, right? I think. I’m not sure. No. Who’s out front the most? Aw man. Okay, this is how I feel about the terms is that I don’t know them. [Laughs] This is the beginning. I should have learned this from the Crisses or way back in the beginning. I think host just means who’s out there the most - who’s most consistently presenting out front.
So in the structural dissociation theory, like our workbook with Kathy Steele or those people, that group would say ANP. Well Kathy Steele would say daily living part. But they would say who is the apparently normal person - that’s what ANP means. Or who is out front the most doing the daily things? So that works for some people. Some people have a consistent host with this other stuff going on in the background or some switching in private or switching for specific reasons. We kind of, because of the context of our life and the way things happened, kind of have like three or four of those, and so I don’t know how that works. We don’t have one person that is out consistently for most of the day, for most of every day. We have one who’s out from like 4 to 10 am, and [laughs] one who’s out from like 10 am to 3 pm [laughs] -- like there’s a schedule. Not really, but because our work schedule and the rotation of what’s happening in our family life and different issues like that -- and so it’s a shared thing.
So according to that model, we would have more than one ANP, which actually does not bode well for prognosis. [Laughs] But we’re working on it and we’re working hard at it, so there you go. Uh. This was a really intense email, you guys. This did not go quickly [laughs] or easily. And I think I’m at my limit of what I can say.
Forgive me for the onslaught -- forgive me the onslaught of questions. Okay, I’m trying. I do think I’m done though. [Laughs] Except they were really good questions so I’m glad we talked about them on the podcast. Thank you.
“I’m just trying to make sense. Thanks in advance for anything you can answer. No worries for anything you don’t want to address. Again, I really, truly appreciate your authenticity.” Ooh! That’s me. I’m the authenticity one. [Laughs] Just kidding. Okay. “You’re doing an amazing thing for the world. It has been the most helpful thing for me/us, even in regards to the weirdness of therapy and marriage to amazing people.” Aww yay, I’m so glad you got amazing people to marry, because we did too.
“Makes me feel less freaky. Take care.” And then they signed their name. And I don’t want to read their whole name. Hoo! That was intense, right? That was really good. Thank you.
This email’s from Cece. Cece says, “Dear Emma and all of your system, I must first of all say I love all of your podcast episodes. I find so much learning in both Dr. E interviews and the more personal episodes. Both Sasha and JohnMark episodes give me a burst of joy.” Ba-bam. I’m the joy-bringer. “Also, it’s so good for me to hear that there are others that have the same thoughts about missing therapy and getting fired from therapy and also the inner struggles.”
It’s so true. Oh my goodness. The first year…we thought every session was going to be our last one. It was just hard. I don’t -- uh -- I can’t even.
“I want to thank you for the episode by the Adaption System from Germany. Listening to it and to Julie’s initial question gave me the answers I needed to understand myself.” I’m so glad. They were an amazing interview. I was so glad. And we’re going to talk about this again in a minute, but they totally called us out on something, because we had not addressed OSDD at all hardly, and what we did say, we didn’t say fully. I mean, not on purpose, but they helped us and educated us, which I so appreciated, because we just didn’t know. And that’s a big part of the population. So I’m glad we didn’t leave them out and they came to speak to us and to share with us more information about that specifically. We would not have known because it’s not our experience. So I’m really, really glad they shared more.
The email says, “I am diagnosed with DDNOS, but that did not explain why there are more people in here co-existing and co-fronting. I only, on the rarest occasions lose time. It does not happen often. Therefore, I was so glad to hear about OSDD. It all clicked together and I’m so glad. Thank you so much. Your podcast is a lifesaver. Maybe I can finally get a right diagnosis and also the right therapy.” Aw, yay. That’s so great and I’m so glad it was helpful.
“I have listened to all of your episodes now and I signed up to be a regular subscriber. Looking forward to every new episode you guys make.” Aw, that’s so sweet. You guys, I have to give a shout out to our regular subscribers. I don’t always read all of their names, because I don’t know who wants their name and who doesn’t, and I want to be really sensitive to that. So I’m careful about it. But oh my goodness, I can’t tell you how much the regular subscribers have helped us. It takes a lot of time to do a podcast and it takes a lot of energy and a lot of time to edit them, and that is time that we are not with our family, because you can’t do a podcast with six children running around. [Laughs] And it is time that we are away from The Husband and time away from therapy work, except it’s part of our therapy and so it helps. But you all have helped us be able to have the equipment that we need to be able to have the website and to keep the podcast up and going and now there’s so many of them. We’ve done over 100 episodes now. And so being able to store all of those episodes costs money and being able to keep them up so that other people can still hear them, even the old ones, all of that costs money and time. And trying to find a way even to just help with therapy or getting to therapy -- all of this -- I cannot tell you how much it has helped us and how grateful -- from the bottom of our heart that we are that there are people subscribing and signing up to help support the podcast in a financial way. I’m so grateful. It’s so, so kind and generous and has made all the difference in trying to keep the podcast going. It was really difficult in the beginning and so having the help to keep it going has really, really been a very kind thing from so many generous people. And I cannot thank you enough. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
“Please give my love to Julie. I wish I had a friend like Julie in my life.” Julie is awesome. Donna is awesome. My friends, I’m so, so grateful to have them and even when they make fun of our chirping birds, they are legit. And I’m so grateful. So, I’m glad that that’s been helpful to you to get to hear from them as well.
“I will try to send a package after the summer holidays.” Aw, that’s so sweet. If you want to send a package, our PO Box is number 3792 in Beeville, Oklahoma, 74006. And if you’re wanting to support the podcast, there’s a paypal link on the website. Thank you.
Oh wait, Julie makes fun of how we say thank you. She’s been mocking lately. I think she’s mad because we left her and went to Africa. But she says that at the end of the podcast that it says, “thank you.” Like Q, Thank-Q. I don’t know how we say it wrong, but she and Donna were riding me about that when we were in Branson. That was pretty funny.
This email is from Jaime. Jaime says, “I love your podcast and guests. I am a mom of a DID daughter and discovered my daughter’s diagnosis while living and working in China. We are back in the states and my daughter is getting ready to go away to college. I cannot seem to find any info on parents of DID children and support. We too have not had much luck in finding a good therapist. I would like to hear more about how to help my daughter while she attends college. I have met all 18 of her Alters. My daughter is amazing and anyone with DID is amazing.”
Oh wow. Okay so there’s lots of pieces to this. First of all, China’s cool and welcome back to the States. And you are right, there’s not a lot of information for parents of people with DID. Part of this is because in a lot of cases -- obviously not all cases -- the parents are part of what caused the DID. And so there is fewer resources in trying to help them, because it has not been as much of an awareness of a need. But I think part of the limitation of that is that there are other ways that children can be traumatized and there’s more information about DID coming out now. And so there are many cases where there are good, good parents of people who are dissociative and want to help them. The fact that you want to help your daughter is an indication of that, like you even care, you’re even asking this question. So that’s amazing. A shout out to all the really good parents -- not just parents of those who have DID, but also parents with DID. A shout out to all of you who are trying so hard to raise your children well.
There are a few online Facebook groups for DID that allow parents of people with DID. They’re usually support groups of support people -- DID groups -- not DID groups themselves, but DID groups for support people. And many of the people in those support groups are actually spouses. So it’s not exactly what you’re looking for, but it would at least be a starting place where you could go ask. And if anyone else listening knows of good support or resources for parents of someone with DID, you can let me know and I’ll be glad to talk about it on the podcast.
“I agree with you about it being super hard to find a therapist.” And we have talked about that over and over again. But that’s also why it matters so much to get a good one and to find the right one. So good luck with you as your daughter tries to find one in college. Definitely look on the ISST-D website and see if there’s any in the area near the college or if you could at least get a starting place with someone who is trauma informed. That would at least help with some functioning aspects, even though not the DID piece, while you try to find someone else. But continue to network. You could also ask some of the conference people -- like the Healing Together, for example -- that conference -- if you contacted them, they might have some resources. And people online in some of the support groups online would maybe have some resources.
As far as how to help her while she’s in college…the main things that help anybody in college - keeping them grounded; helping them set up a schedule; checking in on them, but not being intrusive; making sure their life is balanced with both work and classwork and playtime; all of these kinds of things; being aware of triggers and how to handle them; those sorts of things. As far as meeting all 18 of her Alters -- I don’t know if I would ever say that about anyone, because there’s always more. [Laughs] Or maybe not and maybe it’s all settled and everybody’s out there, but that seems like a tricksy thing to say right up front. I don’t know. But if that’s everybody and that’s it, then there you go. Congratulations. You’re doing an awesome job and I’m so glad that you are supporting her the way that you are. That is fantastic and such a needed thing in this world. So thank you for being that person that is loving your daughter well. Good for you.
And then I want to give a shoutout to someone named Chris, who emailed holistic information, to explain to me how to use a potato -- I’m not kidding, you guys. This was legit. Look it up. How to use a potato to help with my sunburn. It was amazing. So, kudos to Chris for teaching me how to take care of my sunburn with a potato. That seems like it should be its own episod altogether. I’m just saying. I think we could go there. [Laughs] It was amazing and I really appreciated it. Thank you for helping with my sunburn.
Kudos to Finn, who said that they have already worked through all of the 99 podcasts, and there’s actually over a hundred now. And then there were three that we took down, so we’re way past 100 now. Everything’s going great. I’m so glad you found it. I hope it’s helping. Welcome! Welcome to the club.
My friend, Kim, who is still waiting for her interview. [Laughs] We have tried and tried and tried to interview her, but because of scheduling and work and kids, it just keeps clashing, but we will get there and it will be a great interview about being the support person of someone with DID.
But she says she just listened to the episode about doing it afraid, and wanted to thank us for it. She said, “It was a hard day in regards to her partner, and hearing us talk about the cycle of anxiety and avoidance helped put some things in perspective and changed her attitude.” And that my friends is why I love Kim and why we’re going to interview her. Thank you for sharing that, Kim, and please don’t give up on me. [Laughs]
And then Susanne wrote in again to thank us for answering the question about finding groups and they share that they found one, but that it does get scary sometimes because of the drama. And who has time for that? I totally agree to stay out of the dramas on the group, as best you can. Sometimes it just happens by accident. That happened to us earlier this year. We didn’t even understand what was going on, but once we figured it out, then we could just step out of it -- just do your best. Love each other. Support each other - both internally and externally. Be kind. That’s true of politics in the world anyway. Right? It’s such a divisive season and people have different perspectives and different opinions and what matters is that you model how to behave in a good and kind way by just being yourself and no one can argue about who you are or what your experience is. And so it’s fine to get the support you need from the support groups, without getting sucked into the drama of it. That’s totally true.
And then they also shared that they were able to make an in real life friend, and that they knew two who were safe and even talked to this One in particular - this Alter. And so that gave them peace and they offered peace for us. And that is so, so kind and I’m glad that they had a positive connection, even being out to someone about the DID. That’s really, really great. It’s a scary thing. We know to try and make new friends -- we’re definitely learning to do that right now.
And they said, “Thank you for giving us words, because it’s been very lonely for a long time.” And I totally hear you there. And I’m so glad that we have all found each other and are kind of building our own community in this way.
I also got an email from Lisa, to congratulate us on the 100th episode and that we nailed it and, “Thank you for all you do.” Lisa, I adore you too. Thank you so much for your encouragement and support and the consistency of it. But that teaches me so much about friendship and about authenticity and I’m so grateful for you. I know you’re just out there. I’m just grateful for you. Thank you.
And then Cece wrote in again and said, “I also must say that I cried so much with the episode ‘Being Okay’ and ‘The Giver’. So, so much hope and love was spread throughout those episodes. I also love and found support in the ‘Doing It Afraid’ episode. I’m in the process of starting to get new friends now and I do it afraid all the time. It’s scary to make friends when you are all grown up and with a diagnosis.”
It’s so true, Cece. And I’m so grateful that -- again -- that we have each other and the support as we learn to do it and as we progress in our skills of just being able to be ourselves. How hard is that? And much less trying to connect with other people and learn how to regulate even just having spoons enough to be good friends. And I know that our hearts so much want to give and so much want to be present and be there for our friends and yet we can be so limited by our own traumas and our own physical issues and our own mental issues, much less anything going on with families or externally. And so it can be really hard and it’s such a journey, but the friends who are good and real are just there and they know that and they’re going through the same thing and are safe with you as you learn and supportive of you on the hard days, not just the good days that are fun. Right? And so a shout out to you for being there and for still trying and for making new friends. That’s a big deal and I’m really proud of you. Keep going.
Chris also wrote in again saying, “Congratulations on your 100th episode. We listened to y’all every morning to help motivate us get going in our day. Thank you all so much for continuing with all that y’all do for those in the world with DID and for yourselves. Y’all are an inspiration - every one of you.”
Aw, that’s so sweet. And then they said, “On a side note about EMDR that we originally wanted to share with y’all is that our therapist has helped us find Parts of our system through EMDR.” What?! Oh wow. “We discovered pretty much the majority of us through that process. Some of us appeared in lucid dreaming stages before we were fully going to sleep, but otherwise, we connect to more of us this way through EMDR. In the process of opening that communication ability has led to an increase of awareness of everyone inside. Not everyone in our system is keen on the idea, but they’re getting better at adjusting. We have not used EMDR for any specific trauma, though some Parts may choose to share their memories at that time, when they feel safe enough to do so.”
Wow, that was really heavy. I feel like you were speaking a foreign language. Like it was awesome and I’m excited that you’re excited, but I don’t know if I understood all that. I might have to think about this some more. Maybe I need to listen to the EMDR episode. But good for you. What you’re doing is good. I get that. I’m not complaining. I’m just not there. That’s awesome. That’s so awesome that you were able to use that to help. I’m really glad.
“So anyway, we wanted to say congrats on the 100th episode, and that we love the podcast so much, and also to follow through with sharing our wonderful EMDR experiences.” And I’m glad you did. That’s not something we’ve done yet and I know we’re still learning about it, but I am grateful that it’s been a positive experience for you. So I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you, Chris!
Okay, and then finally, this is the other thing we have to talk about. You know when you think you’re getting one thing and you get another instead? Like those fake jelly beans that you think you’re getting one flavor, but then it’s really some terrible thing, like dirty socks or something and it’s awful. The kids love those and it’s hilarious, but it’s not always pleasant, and other times, you’re not sure what you’re getting. There’s new lemon oreos and on the package it says, “Made with natural flavors and other natural flavors.” What’s so natural that you have to say natural and other natural? That doesn’t make sense.
Or like because of our Sjogrens, the doctor gave us these new eye drops and they’re working really well. We can use them any time we want instead of only just certain times a day, because they’re all natural. They’re not all natural. Like who’s tears were you collecting in a little fairy bottle that you’re giving to me now in this fancy package to drop in my eyeballs? These are not natural tears. What does that even mean? Oh my goodness.
So you don’t always know what you’re getting. This is what happened with the episode that Dr. E just did about Dr. Crittenden. What just happened? We don’t know. We got an email from Dr. Barach and I’m going to read it, because it’s awesome.
So he says that Dr. Crittenden did work with Ainsworth in the 80’s, but that Ainsworth Strange Situation research kids were in Baltimore, not Berkeley. And on the Therapy Uncensored podcast, she did talk about Baltimore. I heard that part, because we were at the gas station and I was getting some snacks. Her 1970 article described them as white, middle class kids, referred by their private practice pediatricians. And that’s what she told us when Dr. Barach, meaning Dr. Barch was in her class in 1970 or 1971. Ainsworth never worked in Berkeley. Mary Main did infant and adult attachment studies in Berkeley.
Okay. Wait no, that’s still confusing, because I don’t think that Dr. Crittenden said -- on that podcast -- I don’t think she said Baltimore. I think she said Boston. Oh my goodness. It’s a mystery.
So he says, “Ainsworth’s original findings have been replicated many times with babies having much more diverse backgrounds, especially in the Modern Mental Minnesota Longitudinal study, where many of the kids came from violent or abusive homes. If you can interview” -- Oh, and so then he tells me I can interview the guy who ran that study. And then he also says Daniel Brown talks about this in the history of his book. I actually have booked an interview with Brown. It’s coming up. It’s a really big deal. I need the kids -- the outside kids -- not to mess it up that day, because he was really hard to book. But we are awesome enough, he booked with us. And so we will talk to him about it as well.
But he also says -- and I love me some Dr. Barach -- so I want to make sure that we have his viewpoint here -- he says that “he disagrees with the idea that attachment isn’t about security. Kids who grow up to be securely attached adults are much better able to explore and try new things and to develop to their best potential - that Minnesota study proves it.” So Dr. Barach is a rockstar, because he can still tell us the truth even when we’re confused about stuff, or learning things wrong, or trying to untangle a mystery. I don’t even know.
He also heard another interview that confused him as well. So we’re not the only ones. [Laughs] So we’re not just failing here. [Laughs]
But the other problem with her model for attachment -- which is true and this is why I could not listen to it, because it lost me -- the other problem with the model is that she ends up with almost two dozen attachment classifications, which is a lot. And how reliable are these distinctions and do they make a difference in planning treatment? That’s a big deal and a really good point.
Because it’s like having two dozen ANP’s. Nobody can have two dozen ANPs, because there’s not enough time in the day. You might have lots of people who are out for specific things or [laughs] maybe even frequently front for other whatever, but there’s only so much time in a day. Just like we share a body, we also share the time in the day. So that many attachment distinctions -- I don’t know -- that’s -- I don’t know. But we’ll talk to her and see what she says.
So those were some amazing emails to read and to get through. And I had so much to share, but I have one more thing that’s super cool. There is the #wegohealthaward, which I didn’t even know about, and had never heard of, but we got nominated for it. And not only did we get nominated for it -- well, I mean the podcast -- not like me specifically. Sasha’s awesome! But I mean the podcast has been nominated for this award twice in two different categories. One is for the best podcast category and one is for the advocacy category.
So if you want to endorse us, which is not the same as voting necessarily, but absolutely helps them get the attention that maybe we’re doing something good in the world, then please go to awards.wegohealth.com/nominees/18463. So that’s kind of confusing there, but that’s the best I can do. And so we’ve been nominated in two categories and if you go to that website, you can endorse us to win this award where we can go speak about why we are talking about DID, which would be huge.
So if you want to help endorse us, that would be great. And if you don’t, we still love you anyway, even if you talk about chirping birds, just so you know. Okay. Have a good week. Thank you, everybody!
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.