Transcript: Episode 141
141. 2020 Updates
Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, fighting stigma about Dissociative Identity Disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org, where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what’s unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshaw on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others. We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community - a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us, including the new monthly meetups that start this month. Go to our web page at www.systemspeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there.
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
It is a new year and so we have updated our website just a little bit. We have added, by request, a page on the website where you can hear just only the guests that have been interviewed on the podcast. So, if you just go to the website at System Speak you can click on the tab that says “guests” at the top, and it goes to just the guests we’ve had, in alphabetical order, by last name. So, I hope that is helpful.
We also [laughs] renewed the post office box. I know some people had some things sent back. I’m really sorry about that. It expired while we were out of the country, and so when we got back in December, we were able to get that renewed. And so, those of you who are using the post office box, you can continue to mail things. That is okay. Everything is set. We just had to renew it for another year.
We also went to the “about” page, and updated some information. We get asked so many times about cochlear implants, and so we put a little bit of information about cochlear implants there. And then we also added some updates for some system members that were featured on the page, only as a reminder that first of all, things are always changing as we continue healing, and also that not everyone in our system is on the podcast, or talked about on the podcast. So, there’s some mentioned in the updates that have not had any kind of profile on the web page before, and that’s okay. We’re not needing to do that, but just to share.
So, we pointed out, because of the confusion, that where it says “Emma is age 36”, that that’s not the body’s age or name, and we added the update for 2020, that there have been three insiders kind of combined with Emma. And, we talked about that on the “Three Emma’s” episode, and so the more that that happens, her memory becomes a little more consistent, and goes a little further back, although there’s still obvious gaps, where others have been out, rather than her. But, we are able to talk about things more directly with each other, and cooperate with each other differently than we could two years ago.
We also added the 2020 update that if you listen to the podcast all the time, you already know that while Dr. E still does not maintain an office space private practice, she is doing some teletherapy again, and some consultant work, including the traveling work that we have done. And so, what that means for us, as far as a shift in functioning, is that Molly is not working as a chaplain now, and is staying inside caring for the Littles, as she’s not needed for a job on the outside. And it’s kind of a big deal that Dr. E is back at work, and we’re able to function that much. I think it’s kind of a big deal, kind of huge. We have thought about returning to private practice, but it’s not time yet, and we’re not ready for it yet. So, we still are not maintaining an office based private practice at this time.
We also added the update for the wife, as she’s mentioned on the webpage, because now, after the podcast in the last year, you know that her name is Em, and that’s who we refer to as the wife. She and Emma have worked hard at becoming co-conscious, and that seems to have improved her mood, and she is not as depressed anymore, since being able to be more present with Emma. And, somehow, that collaboration has increased Emma’s confidence, both with parenting and with new outside friendships. And so, that’s also kind of a big deal, and that’s kind of getting blurry. Like, I don’t know if that’s integration or if that counts as integration, if it’s just two Alters or two Parts in that way. I don’t know exactly, because this is new for us, and we’re still learning the words and which words are right for what time. But, that’s getting very close, and is kind of unfolding. So, as we find words for that, we’ll share about that some more.
A similar thing is happening with Sasha and Cassi, and that is bringing them closer to Taylor as well, which is not at all close to being co-conscious, but seeing as we avoided her in the past, that’s also huge progress. So, there’s been lots of shifts in the system in those ways, and more co-conscious happening. And, the therapist says that that’s a good thing. So, we’re trusting her on that, but we’ll see how it goes.
And then the last update that we had to share was about John Mark and the boys, and how they have been helping Molly with the inside Littles, as well as becoming more co-conscious with Sarah, who’s another Little near his age that they have been pretty tight. And, she sometimes tells the stories we have to tell. She did paint and talk with the therapist some, and so they are really missing the therapist, and struggling with that. There are some specific pieces that he specifically wants to give to Emma in therapy, and we kind of are ready to, except now we’ve had the change in therapist, and so that’s put that on hold. But, I think that there’s big shifting happening there, and more co-consciousness, and some growing up somehow. I don’t know how to explain that really, and it’s also not my story. So, I don’t want to go into it too much, but that’s definitely a big thing that’s happening.
And, besides all of that, as we said on the webpage that Emma is not needing John Mark the way that she did before. And, so, they’ve not been out as much as things start to blend together a little bit, which doesn’t mean he’s gone or disappeared or anything bad happened, but it does mean she gets cravings for salsa, urges for road trips, and keeps finding herself at the airport. So, [laughs] there are differences there, and we’ll continue to share about it as we keep healing in the ways that feel safe and comfortable.
We also have a ton of emails from listeners, so I’m going to read some of those and answer questions, as we get started in a new year.
Mindy says, “As a professional, and as a member of” -- the same church we go to -- “I’m so thankful for your podcast. I just got my diagnosis this year, and I’m really struggling to figure out how to deal with it, and maintain my appearance of just being depressed or anxious. Your willingness to share your story has been a gift. I feel like you have given me hope that I won’t lose everything, if word about the diagnosis got out. Well, at least a Part of me is seeing that. I just wanted to reach out and tell you ‘thank you’ and see if you know of any other safe ways for me to connect with others. I’m limited because of my location, and have to be careful about social media.”
I totally hear you on that, and I would definitely not post anything on social media that you wouldn’t want people to find sometime or to share. And, I know that’s really scary. It’s even scary when we do the podcast. I think that the best way to connect with other professionals would be to participate in the ways you’re able, like listening to the podcast, and going to conferences, even if you’re able to travel at all sometimes, and just discerning, carefully, who overtime is a safe friend. Not everyone is really ready for that level of safety and connection, but over time, I think you could find it if you were just going slow and being respectful of your own system and their input, because lots of times, I think that your system will have information about what is comfortable and safe, and give you clues to what they’re ready for, even when otherwise you wouldn’t necessarily be aware of it. So, trust them, and trust yourself, and just let things unfold naturally.
Jessica says, “This is for Molly, but I think you’re extraordinary and brave for doing this broadcast. I’m reaching out to connect to you more on a spiritual level. It’s my job in our system to have faith, but most recently I’ve become aware, for the first time, that many others in our system struggle with relationships.”
That’s so true, right, it’s really hard. And, if you think about what trauma is, and how trauma happens, and trauma as a relational injury, then it makes sense that they are doing a good job of protecting you by keeping you safe in those ways. Um, part of her email is private, so I’m going to skip some of this.
“It can be frustrating. I don’t mind when outer people struggle with this, but I’m struggling with inner people. I feel so alone in the struggle.”
That’s true. So, trying to get your system to work together, and respecting where everyone is and what they think and believe, while also finding a way to practice your own faith, can take a lot of practice in itself. And, so, just know that you’re not alone, and let everyone be where they are and respect the reasons for that, because some of those things are experiences that will heal along the way. But also, trusting each other, and being kind to each other, and respecting the differences between you is part of what pulls you together in new ways, as you learn to work together, and listen to each other, and learn about each other, even when it comes to matters of faith.
Charlene says, “I’ve been listening to your podcast for about a year now. What you’re doing is so brave, and I want to thank you. My body is 47 years old, but there are others in this body that are much younger than I am, and we are getting to know each other, and working hard to trust. There’s so much on your podcast that validates our story.”
And then she shares lots of examples. I don’t want to read all of the private things. We try, guys. We try really hard to be careful about your emails. We don’t read them out loud if you tell us not to, and we don’t read the detailed pieces, or the identifying pieces. So, we do try hard on that, just so that you know…those of you that write to us. We try to be respectful as best we can.
Here’s something interesting they say, that this system shares. “One of the things we are learning is that abuse overwhelms all the physical senses, so we learn to shut down the body until it seems we don’t even have a body. It seems safer that way. Our system has struggled with an eating disorder for many years. In fact, we spent four and a half months in treatment this year. Once again, our protector knew --”
So, again, protectors taking care of us, right, and keeping us safe.
“We keep trying so hard to live, even though some of us think we don’t want to anymore. But once we start to risk letting in some good, we are realizing that the reason we are created is to be loved, and our body can actually be an ally as we are learning to take in good things through our physical senses. We are realizing that our eyes, our nose, ears, and mouth, and even our skin, are so hungry, starving for good things, to experience and take in things that are nurturing and nourishing, and kind and loving, and that we are worthy of all those things, to receive all those things. We feel like we are just starting to wake up, and it’s good. It’s hard, but it’s good.”
That’s amazing. I love that description, it’s so true. Part of healing is coming to live back in your own body.
They say, “You are so brave, and I’m so thankful for what you have offered. You’re a gift. Remember, you are all created to be loved, treasured, and cherished. The abuse is not who you are. You are beloved. Please take exceptional care of all of you. You are fighting for yourselves, and it’s so beautiful. You have come so far to only come this far.”
Aww, yes, thank you for remembering that. We always need the reminder.
Here’s someone -- I don’t want to read their name, but they really identified with the interview from Dr. Kezelman. And, that’s exciting that you all are connecting via the interviews, and finding other people who are like yourselves, and share similar stories, and I’m so, so grateful. That’s exactly one of the reasons that we do the podcast, to bring people together.
Doug says, “Hi System Speak, I’d just like to thank you for having the courage to be vulnerable enough to educate the rest of us. I run an adventure therapy program in Australia, and I have been on a journey of learning and discovery around developmental trauma, and how best to help young people begin to heal through connection with nature and adventure activities.”
That’s amazing. If you want to see what this guy’s doing, if you’re in Victoria, in Victoria, his website is Berry Street - child & family services, family… | Berry Street.
He says, “While I’ve been studying and not a therapist, I’m building my knowledge and skill sets. I think it’s worth mentioning that I learn more from your podcast around trauma than I have through my current studies in development and complex trauma. All of your Parts are so amazing, and your system as a whole makes such an inspiring person. You have achieved so much, survived so much, and managed to fit so much into your days. I’m still catching up on the podcast, and just finished the one when we met your outside kids. Thank you for sharing, and I wish you and your amazing family all the best in the world. Warm regards, Doug.”
Check out his website, it sounds like he’s doing cool things. Doug gets a shoutout.
Casey says, “Hello Emma, I wanted to reach out and tell you that you have absolutely saved my life. I’m also diagnosed with DID, and after reading your story, I have learned to love all of my Alters and the things they had to do for us to survive. I appreciate you so much, and I love your podcast. Casey.”
Aww, Casey, thank you for reaching out. I’m so excited that you found it, and I’m glad it’s been helpful.
Crystal says, “Thank you for doing this. I don’t have time for videos either. I’ve been listening nonstop to the podcast. I can’t tell you how much you are helping me and my system. We have been disconnected from a lot of us for a long time, and you are helping us remember how to reconnect. I’ve referred some friends to your podcast. I really relate to you as far as being a clinician and being multiple. I love your friend, Julie, and that has encouraged me to slowly test the waters of letting some friends know about the DID, and hear more about us, and maybe one day meet more of us. It’s also so helpful to hear the conversations with The Husband and Julie, and see how real and how all of you are able to interact with them. I love you, Sasha, you crack me up, and that is so nice when talking about subjects involving trauma.”
[Laughs]
“So often people only hear the clinical side, and don’t see the reality of daily life, or some of the joys. John, in a group where me and another woman self-disclosed, I said something I like about having inner-kids…is that a lot of them love the holidays, and I get to enjoy them in a way that I wouldn’t if it were just me altogether, an adult person. So, it’s fun to hear from you as well.
A lot of us have journals, but I haven’t been able to use my arms to write stuff, so that was the start of us starting to lose touch with each other. I’m considering starting something audio, for us to communicate, as well as processing things like therapy.”
That’s genius! That’s a great idea.
They continue, “Dr. E, you are amazing, and doing so much for the community by interviewing people in the field. I love that I can refer professionals to this. I’m thinking of donating, but I’m wondering where the money goes. Do you use it to pay the speakers, or do they volunteer their time. Also, is this how you make a living since you don’t do private practice anymore?”
That’s a fair question, and I can answer that question, just for transparency. We have never, ever paid any speaker. All of them have been volunteers. There are four people that we requested to interview, who said they would only interview with us if we paid them, and so we did not interview them, because that’s just not possible. And no, we do not make a living off of the podcast, at all. The people who donate to the podcast usually are people who are able to donate $5 or $10. There are a few people, like a handful, like maybe on one hand, who donate regularly every month, and those people are able to pay the fee for the platform that puts the podcast up, and keeps it up. And, so, that is paid for. But the website itself is not paid for, and we don’t make any money over that. We did, for full disclosure, one time, someone donated new microphones to me, and several YouTube channels, for educating about DID. And, so, we got a microphone that time. And then another time someone -- who was that? An author. Who was that? Someone else, one time donated a couple of hundred dollars for -- who was that? I can’t even remember. Just out of gratitude for the podcast, and they did not specify what we had to use it for, and we used it to renew the domain for another year. And, so, that was paid, but the monthly fees of the website, and keeping the podcast on the platform, has not been provided yet. And, so, it’s not making any money, and it’s definitely not sponsored at all, or paid for in and of itself yet.
And, that’s actually really hard, because it takes an hour and a half or so to record an episode, sometimes longer. And then it takes another two hours…about….to edit the podcast, and get it prepared and posted and scheduled to be up. We post the podcast about a month ahead of time, and so it’s scheduled out, about a month after it’s recorded. But, it’s not at all paid for yet. In fact, I think right now, it’s not even playing on Google podcasts, so for people who have android phones, I think they have to get it a different way, or from the website, just because we can’t keep paying for that. But, we’re trying. I mean, we’re recording them, we’re getting them out there. We’re doing our best. So, maybe someday it will pay for itself, just as a program, but no, we don’t at all make our living off of it. And, no, that’s just not a thing.
But, we are grateful for those people who donate, even a little bit, because it provides the consistency for the platform, to keep the platform going. So, I’m grateful for that. And, in fact, that’s actually been really important, because we have enough listeners now, that the fees went up on the platform, to be able to keep it going, and have it accessible to everyone.
She says -- Crystal continues, “I want to give a shoutout to everyone, even those not on the podcast. Thanks for everything you do and all of your hard work on healing and surviving. You all are bringing something wonderful to the world. Keep up the good work and sending healing energy.”
Thank you, Crystal and Company.
Barbara says, “Is there such a thing as a switching hangover? Pretty certain there should be.”
[Laughs] That’s so true. That is so true.
She says, “Light-headedness, head-achey, ears ringing, feeling just blah, can’t really go into a forum and ask, because we once again found ourselves without one, although this time of our own choosing. I’m tired of being misunderstood, but on the same token, I try to let people speak their truth without always explaining mine. It’s amazing how far perspectives can deviate from one another.”
It’s so true. Everyone’s experience is so different, whether that’s inside or outside. Everyone’s perspectives are just so, so different. That’s part of why being respectful and kind are so important, because we don’t really understand someone else’s story, until we listen to them.
They go on, “I recently realized you weren’t home much by listening to your podcast. I can’t even begin to state how much of a role model you are to me and my system. So often we hear about how much of a struggle DID is, and while it’s true, I also want to see how others successfully, as best that can be defined, do manage. For decades I felt like my diagnosis was wrong, because I work, and I’m a single parent, and I don’t seem like I have others, or at least not that bad. Although, now I realize a lot of times we stop ourselves from getting help, even when we were fortunate to have quality help available.
But then, I listened to what your system is doing, and it has been a huge reassuring lightbulb that has gone off in my system’s collective head. I feel horrible for saying this, but by you talking about your life struggles and experiences, including what you are doing to help others and your humor, you’re not allowing yourself to have a whole life evolve around what could be very limiting circumstances, and that’s amazing. It’s a whole way to exist, even when walking with fractured selves. I’m hooked on you, not in a stalker way, but in a DID rockstar way. I just pray when the dust settles around, how your system continues to move forward. You are all met with respect, kindness, and appreciation of what you did to get there, and for a DID community star for role-models. Keep your light burning strong and for goodness sake, when you get home, take some time off.”
[Laughs] That’s funny. Okay, we got like three days off. [Laughs] So, we got home in the middle of December. I can tell you this. We got home in the middle of December, but the day we got home, The Husband left, because he had a production. Okay, so he left, and we were home for like a week and a half, by ourselves with the children, and then it was Christmas. And, so, we had to do Christmas, and then he got home. We did Christmas with him, and then the children, and then we had to go to his parents -- our parents are dead, we don’t have to go there -- we had to go see his parents. And, while we were there, we were able to see the therapist -- not for a session, but just to say “hello” and hand over -- but just to say “hello” and see that she still exists. And, we also got to see our friends, and that was amazing. We will talk about that another time, but it was really, really good. And then we met the family back at home, and we had a couple days with New Years, and then the children went back to school. And, so, that was crazy. We were actually supposed to be deployed in January, but that has been paused because of safety concerns where we were going, and also the mother in law, our mother in law, is going to have some surgery, and The Husband is going to go and help take care of her. And, which means we are on our own with the children, which means we have to be in the country. [Laughs]
So, we’re going to be taking care of the kids. And, we are doing our best to keep up with everything. It is sometimes hard, absolutely. One of the things that I will say that has helped us the best, as far as functioning, is just trusting our system. We have been a system for a long time, and worked together in ways we didn’t realize for a long time. So, there are some things we have to learn, like being sensitive to the needs to balance what everyone needs. And, Cassi wants her own playlist, and that’s fine, she gets her own playlist. And, the Littles need time to play, and we need time to be outside. And, so, balancing all those kinds of things.
But, if we can do that respectfully, and listen to each other, and just trust ourselves as a system to function well, we learned we can be more brave than what we realized. And, we’ll talk about that when we share about meeting with our friends.
A system writes -- and I don’t want to say the name, and also, I’m not sure I can pronounce it -- but, a system writes, and just says, “Connections are hard, but your podcast makes us feel less maladaptive.”
That is amazing and funny and true, all at once. It’s so much better when we have connections than when we’re entirely alone, or think that we’re all alone.
Another system says, “Thank you for your podcast. I’ve known about my DID for less than 10 years now. We had a great T, but had to change to a new one, and that’s been really hard. Our inside and outside was really separate for a long time, when we had to change therapists. Listening to your podcast has helped us start spending more time working in our inner world again, and motivating us to try. Thank you”
You know what? You sent this about the same time we were realizing we had to change therapists, and so I get that in a whole new level than before, because changing therapists is brutal. It’s impossibly hard, I can’t even tell you, and I still can’t talk about it without crying. So, that’s all I can say right now.
They also write, “As a survivor, but also as a human with an engineering mind that has a lot of medical knowledge too, I really appreciate the balance between daily experiences, and knowledge that you have shared in the form of interviews. I have learned a lot from each episode.”
Oh, I’m so glad. I know lately, we’ve had fewer interviews, and [laughs] we are still doing interviews, but let me explain what happened. Partly, it was hard to schedule interviews while we were traveling so much, because of keeping up with timezones, and not having the privacy, or enough quiet space, to be able to do the interviews. And then, when we got home, our daughter was sick again, and so we had some interviews that had to be rescheduled. And then the other thing is, since the last phone update [laughs] -- you know how your phone does these random updates, and then you don’t know how to work it anymore? Does anyone else have that problem? [Laughs] Or is that just us? [Laughs] So, since the last update, the calendar notifications are different. It no longer tells me what is actually happening in my day. When I get a calendar notification, it just says “Calendar events.” Like, super generic, and that’s all, and it’s totally messing us up. And, we’re going to have to find a totally different way to track our time and set alarms for what we’re supposed to be doing, when, because since they upgraded that, it’s completely useless to us. It does not work at all, anymore, that calendar app that just comes on the phone. We are going to have -- I don’t -- ugh -- it’s so frustrating. I don’t even know what to say about it.
Anyway, they said, “I have never met or spoken for long with anyone with DID. I’m still only as far as episode 43, but I’m trying to catch up.”
That’s amazing. I don’t even know how many episodes there are. [Laughs]
“But, you mentioned you did a bunch of work looking for safe online spaces for folx to communicate with other systems. Can you share that app? We have tried one online place, but it did not feel safe based on information they required to get an account.”
It’s true, getting in the groups online is pretty tricksy, but part of that is because they’re trying to keep the group safe. And, I know the people who work on the groups work really hard at that. So, that’s why they ask some of those questions. One thing that is helpful is if you use -- like, if we’re talking about Facebook, for example, then get a profile, on Facebook, that is just for your DID support. Like, we have one with the same name as the podcast. And, that way we can be connected in that way, but it be separate from our real life, so that other people are not intrusive, or so that -- just as a barrier. It doesn’t stop people, and in real life, identity is not necessarily any kind of secret, just protection from that being searched, or found out in some way for work, or other contexts that are not about my support. And, so, doing that for yourself, so that you can have support in a safe way, may be more helpful.
Deanna just says, “Thanks for this.”
Well, you’re welcome, Deanna.
Twilight. writes, “Please help, we are really struggling to talk and open up to the therapist. The therapist is being really kind and patient. However, we are terrified of trusting anyone, yet we know we have to in order to function better.”
Ooh, true story. You got that right, Twilight.
“Any time we are triggered, Parts inside work intensely to shut us down. It’s a revolving cycle. We have young kids we are responsible for, and need to work and function for them. We feel so guilty at the thought of having to go to a hospital again to get help. The kids are growing up so quickly, and we are caught up in our own chaos, we don’t feel like we are being the parent we need to be. We are immensely grateful for the podcast. It helps us feel less alone, and we’re trying to work through the same workbook. It’s all so hard, and feels so futile.”
You know what? That’s so true, and I get it. It’s very hard. In fact, trying to be more present as a parent is one of the reasons why we’re having to change therapists. And, it’s really, really difficult. It’s really, really difficult to balance all of that. What I want to tell you is that it sounds like you’re trying really, really hard, and that’s amazing, and it shows how devoted you are to your outside children, and how important the Others inside are to you, and how good of a job your protectors are doing taking care of you. But also, maybe it would be okay to not try so hard in some ways. Like, instead of pushing so hard in therapy, maybe just go, and be, and get to know you, and get to know your therapist, and just see how things unfold, instead of trying to do something.
And, that’s actually something that the therapist told us once, because we, for several weeks in a row, were trying to do a specific thing. Remember we were trying to read the notebook, and trying to get pages from the notebook, and she was just like, “Slow down, cowboy.” I mean, no, she didn’t say that, but you know what I mean? Instead of having an end goal when you go into therapy, just relax, and just go to therapy, and then let go, and just see what happens on its own, instead of fighting so hard against yourself. Because if Parts of you inside are not feeling safe, then what you need to do is work on feeling safe. Like, they’re giving you that information, instead of working on other pieces.
And, it makes sense, after everything you’ve been through, that it’s difficult to trust people. And, so, instead of working on other things in therapy, just work on trust. Just be there, and be safe, and experience being there safely, and that may help a little bit. I’m glad you have a good therapist, that makes all the difference in the world.
Kelly says, “At the suggestion of my therapist, who also gave me a trigger warning, I have started to listen to the podcast. It took a few weeks of mentioning it briefly for me to actually have the guts to listen. Parts of me are definitely not ready to admit that I have DID. Our story is long, but I knew by the second and fourth episodes that I’m not alone - the night terrors, the running, the throwing up, and feeling like I’m going crazy. I have so much I would like to talk to someone about that has the same experiences, and yet, I don’t like to talk. It’s hard and I’m frustrated.
I drive three hours, one way, once a week, to see my therapist.”
Uh. I know the feeling. Ours is four hours, and it’s exhausting. Four hours, one way, was exhausting. We did that for three years.
“The days are long and daunting. I also have a very demanding career, but an amazing husband.”
Oh my goodness, it really does sound like we have a lot in common.
“Thank you for sharing all of you with us. It helps a little to hear someone who can relate. I’m only finishing up my first year with the right therapist, and the others are starting to talk, but mostly they battle. One has something to say, and the Others shut her up. It’s like a constant argument in my head, like I’m in a room full of screaming second graders.”
Yes. Yes, oh my goodness, yes, that.
And then she talks about some mean ones, or bossy ones, or sassy ones. They all, all, all have reasons they are there, and reasons they are the way they are. So, I know it’s hard and exhausting and scary and daunting, but trust them, and learn to find out what it is that they are doing, what needs they have, what needs you have that they are meeting. And, trusting that process of you as a system that’s been in place so long.
They share some private things I don’t want to read on the podcast, but Kelly, I’m so glad you wrote in, and I hear you. I know it’s so, so hard. I’m with you.
Someone writes in -- I’m not going to read their name, but someone writes in, and says, “First, I would like to thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I find them valuable personally, and on a larger scale as well. I have listened to all the episodes of your podcast, and have heard you speak about ruptures.”
I think they mean attachment, attachment ruptures, maybe.
“I’m a 28 year old female. I do not have DID, but have dissociation to some degree, although I’m not sure to the extent as it is a fairly new concept to me. I have been seeing a therapist for a few months, and recently, she had to cancel a couple of appointments. I saw her once since the canceled appointments, and she apologized, and explained that her young daughter has been having ongoing medical issues. All of this makes sense to me logically and rationally, but there are some parts of me that is struggling badly with this situation and the events, and as a result, I ended up walking out of our last session without warning. I don’t know how to explain it, but it sort of seems that I was not fully in control of myself at the time. I was aware of everything that was happening.”
Okay, so, that…it definitely could be some dissociation. But, regardless, it sounds like you were triggered. And, so, talking about what that trigger was, and what you were feeling, and sort of figuring out what that’s connected to, and what it’s stirring up for you, that may help you feel more safe, and have a plan for how to handle it next time.
They say, “I’m not sure what to do. Try to find a different therapist? Try to make another appointment with this one? Quit therapy? I have so many questions I don’t know the answers to, or even how to find out. Was this a rupture? Is this normal for therapists to cancel and fail to reschedule when they said they would? Is there any benefit to attempting to repair the situation? Have I reacted inappropriately with the therapist? How do I know if she is even a good fit for me? What are the rules for me as the client, and her as the therapist? I don’t understand at all what my place is in the situation, or therapy in general.”
Wow, that’s a lot of questions. Okay, so the first part was just you kind of laid out your own choices. You could get a different therapist, you could stay with this one and reschedule with them, or you could quit therapy altogether. Those are all valid choices. If you want to get better, you need to stay in therapy. [Laughs] I’m just saying. Like, I’m not trying to poke you with a stick, I’m just saying that therapy -- if what your goal is to get better and to feel better, then you have to stay in therapy, even when it’s hard.
But, that said, therapy’s only going to help if you have a good therapist, and it’s a good fit with that therapist. So, if you don’t feel like it’s a good fit, then finding a different therapist might be a solution. If this was just a good therapist, who had a hard day, and so had to reschedule appointments, then offering her some grace to just be human, and not just magical -- she doesn’t live at her office, right, she lives in her home, with her real life family, just as everyone else are real people walking around. And, so, sometimes we forget that, and have such high expectations of our therapist, we don’t let them be human.
And, if she was just having a human moment, then learning to let that go, and reschedule and come back to therapy, and try again would help you work through that. But, it’s also okay to say, “This was hard for me, and I don’t know why. Can you help me figure out why?” And, that would be kind of what the roles are. Your role, as the client, is to share what’s going on. They can’t help you if they don’t know what’s going on, and her role as the therapist is to help you figure out what’s going on, and process how you feel about it. Does that make sense?
They say, “This therapist has some experience in trauma. Before the cancellations, I thought she was fairly intuitive and I thought things were going well. I don’t understand how I misjudged things so badly. I don’t have any animosity toward her. I feel sad for the situation she is in with her daughter, but I don’t understand what that means for me in the context of the therapy relationship.”
So, okay, I have a couple of thoughts here, and most of them are none of my business. Number one is, if you’re fairly intuitive, and thought things were going well before the cancellations, then it sounds like she is a good therapist, and a good fit, and you need to go back to her. But, that’s not advice, I’m just reading and rephrasing what you said. I don’t think -- you said, “I don’t understand how I misjudged things so badly.” Just from what you shared -- like, I don’t know, because I’m not you, and I wasn’t there -- but, just from what you shared, it doesn’t sound like you misjudged things, so much as she’s just having a hard time with her daughter. And, maybe I’m being overly sympathetic with that, because I have a medically fragile daughter who’s, like, sick all the time, and it causes all kinds of scheduling havocs, and mishaps, and problems. And, it’s frustrating because we can be really good at what we do, but our number one priority is keeping our daughter alive. And, so, we may love all of our work, and the people we work with, or our friends we want to meet up with, but if our children are sick, we have to attend to them first. And, that’s just part of being a parent.
And, so, it doesn’t sound to me like you misjudged things, so much as you were triggered, and that could be any number of things. It could be you were triggered, because you had a cancellation, and that’s hard for you for some reason, and you could explore that. It could be because you felt some kind of abandonment, because she wasn’t there, and so you could explore that. And, it could be something about because she was caring for her child, and maybe you had a parent who did not care for you. So, seeing her care for her child brings up a lot of feelings for you, that you’ve been able to avoid until this situation brought them to the surface. There could be all kinds of things. But, you won’t know if you don’t go back and talk to her.
So, if before this happened, you thought things were going well, then maybe trust yourself. And, instead of avoiding by running out and not going back, maybe just talk to her about it, and see what you learn from the experience. That takes a lot of courage, and it takes a lot of openness. But, if you can be super brave, then you can really learn a lot. And, we have found, especially over the last year, that those moments when we are extra, extra brave, when things are really hard to face, but we stay present with it anyway, we make leaps and bounds of progress, far more than we ever could have dreamed, than just from running away, or avoiding in some way.
So, I hope that is helpful, and I wish you well in your therapy journey. I know it’s so, so hard, and I don’t at all mean to minimize that. All of your feelings are valid, but if you want to know more about why you had those feelings, then therapy would be kind of a safe place to figure that out, you know, to do that work. And, it is hard. I think it’s part of why they call it “work”.
Shelby says, “I started listening to your podcast this week, and you have already changed my life. I’m not even 20 episodes in, and I’ve already had major breakthroughs, and looked for a therapist last night. I don’t have DID, but my sister does, and that’s why I was interested, and chose your podcast. Although I’m not yet diagnosed with anything officially, your stories, and listening to your guests, and the doctors made me self reflect and made me realize I do need to seek help. I don’t think I’d ever gotten the push I did without listening to you all. Thank you. You’re beautiful and amazing and inspiring. And, thanks for being so open. It really helps. A lot of the YouTube and stuff I’ve watched on DID and trauma has not landed in the way this podcast did. And, I think it’s because your episodes are so authentic. They aren’t a script or something like that, it’s just you talking aloud, just the way I have an ongoing monologue in my head. It’s a comfort to hear you speak and laugh and sometimes even cry together. I hope all is well.”
Oh, Shelby, that was so sweet. I appreciate it. It is an ongoing monologue, you’re right. And, I think that’s why the podcast has worked, even though as a completely bizarre experience that I never would have imagined we would be able to do. I’m glad it’s helped. Welcome to listening to the podcast.
Lisa, who we adore, wrote about the ‘Unshame’ episode. She said, “I’m so proud of you, and reaching out to congratulate you on your decision to change therapists. You can do hard things. This is a hard choice, but from your interviews, you know connection is the factor important in healing, and you know the new therapist. And, surely, your old therapist --”
Oh, by the way, we do not say “old therapist”, it is a sensitive topic. We say “previous therapist.” [Laughs]
“-- could maintain contact after as needed.”
Yes, we did send her a card, and we were able to meet up with her, and get our map, and our notebooks…some of the things that we need. And, we gave her some envelopes so that she could mail us the notebooks as we were ready for them. So, she’s been very flexible, and helpful in that way. Although, I’m sorry that now she’s working for even less money than she was before. [Laughs] [Sigh]
“You all can do this. You can do hard things. And, once again, you’re explaining my journey in words I don’t have the vernacular for, and hope to challenge myself to get better. Therapy is hard.”
Yes, it is.
“I adore each of you. You are brave, smart, inspiring, and can see the hope. Thank you.”
Lisa, we adore you. Thanks for writing in again. And, I totally read it, and I wanted to reply, because you’re awesome.
Christy says, “Thank you for being an inspiration to us. I, the host, Christy, and my boyfriend, have recently started listening, and I can’t tell you how wonderful your system is in helping us. Do you have a Facebook page? We can relate, and we laugh, and cry, and we feel like we go through everything with you. You’re amazing human beings. Thank you again.”
Aww, that’s so kind, Christy. People have asked us if we want to have a Facebook page, so that people can follow, and get more updates there, and we’ve thought about it. Right now, we’re just not functioning that well. [Laughs] Like, we have a private profile page for the online groups, but we don’t participate very often. But, as far as having, like, a System Speak Facebook page, or group, or something -- we don’t want to have a group, because we are not functioning well enough to monitor that, or interested in moderating that, just because of online drama in the past. We just can’t.
It’s just not a thing we’re going to do, but as far as having a Facebook page for the podcast, that’s something that’s possible, but not something in the works right now, just because of level of functioning. Maybe as we get better, or maybe if that felt safer, but when we continue to get nasty-grams from people who are hating on us, or trying to dox us anyway -- which none of that is really such a secret if you actually listen to the podcast, you already know most everything, right? So, I don’t know why all that is. But, it just seems like a bad time to invite more of that. We already have been pretty risky with the podcast itself.
So, I don’t know, we’re thinking about it, people have asked, I’m aware it’s a thing, and that other people do that, but, I don’t know. I don’t know. We’re practicing -- I don’t know. I don’t even know what to say. We don’t have a Facebook page right now. We maybe will. We’ve thought about it. It’s not happening. I don’t think. I don’t know. [Laughs] That’s something that’s going to take a whole different level of cooperation, so maybe it’s just not time yet.
But, your email was very sweet, and I’m glad you have a boyfriend who’s super supportive, and also listening, and learning with you. So, that’s amazing.
Andi, I got your email. I read it. I want to give you a shoutout, and I just wanted to say, I think you’re super brave. I’m glad you wrote it, and we totally have lots of common. I can’t even say that. We totally have a lot in common, and I can see why you connected in that way. So, I’m so glad you found the podcast, and I’m glad that it’s helping. And, just take courage. Keep listening. Keep trying. You’ve got this.
Jim says, “I missed your keynote for the Plural Positivity World Conference. I just read it. Thank you. It was so good. As I got towards the end, I was cheering out loud. I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciated your keynote address. Thank you, again.”
Aww, Jim, I’m so glad you found it.
Crystal says, “I just finished listening to your podcast, ‘Tribal Return’. Your conversations with your daughter was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever heard. I could feel your love for her, and all of the healing that she has had as a result. I love how you explained racism the way slavery has changed forms. You are so good at acknowledging the hard, while not diminishing her strength. The grace that you had in acknowledging her unique skills, while letting her know that you love her, for not just because of all the things she does. It was wonderful hearing her talk about the historical trauma, while hearing her pride about finding her people and her tribe. She is amazing, and I wish her all the best. She’s fortunate to have such a wonderful family.
I love the podcast, and have been telling everyone about it. An African American clinician and I have talked and met to talk about race. I’m white, and I wanted to talk about ways to reduce racism and provide a space for healing and change. I asked her about the DID training, but she didn’t go, but has some clients with DID. I pulled out statistics from the podcast, about the prevalence and stigma. I told her about the podcast. I hope to send her the link, and the link to this episode specifically, because of the way you beautifully shared your love with your daughter.”
Oh my goodness, that’s amazing. Whether it’s racism or any other hard issue, you guys, we’ve got to just listen to each other, and learn from each other. That’s always a starting place. Obviously, there’s so much more needed, but that’s always, always a starting place, just listen to each other. And, that’s true whether it’s inside or outside.
Heather says, “Our system emailed a few weeks back when we first discovered your podcast. I’m a psychologist with DID, who also treats people with dissociative disorders, among other things. I’m learning so much from your podcast, about DID, both for myself and it’s helping me in my work with my clients. Thank you again. I went back, and started from the beginning. I’m on the second “Five Piece” episode”
Man, that was a weird movie, and that was weird interviews we had to do. Ugh. I remember that. And, in fact, one of them we even took down, because he was a creepy guy, and kept chewing and eating during the whole podcast, and it was as nightmare to edit. And, he was mansplain -- ugh, okay, trauma. Bleh. That was really triggering, and that movie was weird. But, the one guy was really helpful, and asked good questions. And, so, we left it up, because he had such a great interview for someone who knew nothing about DID, and then was learning. And, so, that was amazing. Anyway [laughs], I’m glad you listened to it. Uh, didn’t mean to say any of that.
Okay, they said, “So, I have a question for you. Have you ever heard of Internal Family Systems therapy? I’m learning it now in an online module, and I’ve really come to appreciate it. I like it because it normalizes multiplicity and depathologizes --
[Laughs] I can’t say it. You know, it takes away the pathology. [Laughs] I can’t say it. Depathologizes. [Laughs] I need Peter Barach right now. Help me, Peter. [Laughs] I can’t say it. You know what I’m saying though.
“A lot of people in the north -- I’m just going to say the northwest use it to treat dissociative disorders, among other things. I’ve tried it with some of my clients, and have found it to be pretty effective. Would you ever consider doing a podcast on it? I’d love to hear more from your perspective.”
And, then it gave me the website. So, okay, I can tell you about this. Number one, the workbook, or the book about it or something, we got it and could not understand [laughs]. We were not smart enough, or Dr. E was not into it, or she didn’t want to know that much. I don’t know, it was too much. We could not do it. And, so, we started with the Kathy Steele workbook that we went through last year. So, I’m totally interested in finding out about this now. And, I would absolutely be open to someone talking about it on the podcast. We just haven’t found that person yet, who would be willing to.
But, you sent me the website, so I’ll be glad to contact them and see if anyone would talk to us. Absolutely. Anything that’s helpful, and positive, and depathologizing [laughs] -- you guys, this is why deaf people shouldn’t do podcasts. [Laughs] Pathology -- depathologizing. [Laughs] I can’t say it. Any therapy that makes us less maladaptive, we’re all for. So, I would totally talk to them. Thanks for sending me the information.
Heather says, “Again, thanks so much to all of you in the system for doing what you’re doing. I’ve recommended the podcast to both clients and colleagues.”
Thank you, Heather, that’s wonderful, and very kind of you. Oh, that email was for Dr. E. My bad. She maybe could have done a better job with that. I will leave it for her, in her mailbox [laughs], and maybe she can say it, and also set that interview up. Because, that’s definitely not my kind of interview.
Nicole says, “I have been listening to your podcast since one of my interns recommended it. I’ve been struggling with my mental health issues as a mental health clinician. You have helped me process and decide to return to therapy.”
That’s amazing. Good for you!
“I am finally writing you, because of your ‘Unshame’ and ‘Sleeping Jesus’ podcast. I wish I could financially help support your podcast, but we can’t at this time, but you and your family are on our prayer list. I hope that's okay.”
That’s so kind.
“Again, thank you so much. I will keep listening, sharing, and supporting you every way we can.”
That’s so, so kind, and we’re so glad you found the podcast. Welcome.
Donna says, “Once again your transparency is absolutely so courageous and brave that I am in awe. The ‘Sleeping Jesus’ story really meant a lot to me. I’m not exactly sure what my sleeping Jesus is, but I sure appreciate your perspective in getting there. You’re so inspiring. I could barely read the title about leaving the therapist. We are so absolutely heartbroken for you, and I stand in admiration of your strength and intelligence to make the right decision.
When you share about how amazing your therapist is, with going slow with the notebook, or how she messaged you to please message her that you are safe, the day you ran away and left the appointment to the duck pond.”
Oh, yeah!
“And, how she’s absolutely integral in your growth - in person and by email. It is obvious how incredible she is at understanding, and your raw connection.”
You guys, I don’t know how we’re going to do it. I seriously don’t. I know that we have to. I know that we’ve agreed, because of the conditions laid before us in the meeting inside, and I get that it’s a thing, but we are completely changed in beautiful and healing and good ways every time we encounter her. And, I don’t know how we’re going to be okay without her. And, I don’t know how we’re going to continue to get better without her. I don’t know. I don’t -- it’s terrifying. I still can’t even talk about it. I still can’t even talk about it.
Okay, Donna’s email. Hoo, breathe. Donna’s email. “When you spoke of how you read that email from your therapist many, many times in your deepest, darkest days, I also listened to that section of the podcast many times for strength, because it was absolutely life-changing, and I cried as I hung on every word. The one where she said about loving well, and showing up, not with answers, but because it is the answer. I feel like I am mourning for you, or maybe with you. Would it be ridiculous to think you could do a check in a few times a year, or maybe quarterly?”
Dude, I seriously don’t know the rules about it. I don’t. I don’t have the answers. I just -- it feels like we’re never going to see her again, except we did, so it feels less like that. [Laughs] Except still, like, we can’t keep making her work that hard when she’s not even working. She was already not getting paid enough. Ugh, anyway, okay.
“I think that every significant person in our lives has a lot to offer, and even if your new therapist is great and amazing, I wonder if it would be an option to check in, for you and for all your Parts, to stay in touch. I wanted to get a dose of her, and her words, every so often. Would that be healing for everybody rather than cold turkey, and have it just be so painful and never speaking to her again?”
Okay, it’s funny you said “cold turkey”, because I -- well, I don’t know if someone has said this on the podcast already, but you know how we wrote in the notebooks? So, what we did was got a stack of cards, like thank you cards, like you know that come in a package of 25, or something? Except, not thank you cards, just blank cards. But, we got them, and we told her that it was like going on the patch, like when people stop smoking. [Laughs] And, so we’re on the patch.
And, so, we have these 25 cards, and we haven’t used them all up, and we’re trying to space them out. And, I don’t know. Sometimes we put notebook pages in there, because it’s really hard to stop writing in the notebook. But, she can’t keep working if we’re not seeing her. Like, that’s not fair, so we can’t keep sending that to her. It’s really hard, you guys. Like, it’s really hard. It’s really hard.
Anyway, “As you gain your strength to go back out in the field, please know that we are on the edge of our seats listening, hoping and wishing the best for you. Sending you all the energy, clarity, and prayers. Much admiration for your strength, your perseverance, and your incredible ability to prioritize to do it all for your family and for yourselves. Please know you are making a difference when you go to bed at night, even in another country, and you lay there and wonder, What in the world you are doing, or If you can do it any longer, or if it is all worth it. Please know you’re making a difference. My truest, most sincere hugs, and thank you.”
Donna, that was so very sweet, and so very kind, and so very encouraging. We appreciate it. And, that’s exactly why we share these emails and read them, because they give us strength, and help others feel connected as well, as we go through these things together.
And, also, Donna, I got your follow up email. You were one of the ones who tried to send something to the post office box. [Laughs] I’m sorry, the post office box is correct, it is PO Box 3792 Belleville, Oklahoma 74006. And, it is working now. It just expired while we were out of the country, so they put holds on it. But, we’ve paid it up through the next year, and it’s fine. So, it’s totally working, and you’re welcome to use it. And, I’m sorry about that. It was just timing, because we were out of the country, and didn’t expect to be gone that long. But, it’s all taken care of now, so you’re set to go.
Thank you, everyone, for writing in, and for your encouragement, especially in this time as we change therapists, and start a new year. And, we look forward to healing together with you.
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.