Transcript: Episode 333
333. Casita
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
We had a special group last week where we watched the movie Encanto together and then discussed it through a DID framework. Here's our discussion.
[Note: Podcast host is in bold. Community members are in standard font.]
What did you think of that? Film was wild. So, so let me give this little bit of background in that Multi Mes, they mentioned that the Crisses had referenced it as a DID movie. Several other people contacted me about it being a DID movie. The husband said, “Oh, this is a DID movie.” And then it gets super, super epic when you take the, like the Jungian perspective, like the dreams, where you play all the parts. Like, the houses is you. All the characters are you. All of that. But even if you're just thinking about it as DID or internal worlds and those kinds of layers, there's so much in there. So, it was fun. It's cute. It has a lot of layers. It has a lot of triggers too. I mean, just family dynamics anyway. And also the fact that, just to acknowledge upfront, get it out of the way, that most of us do not have all of our family problems solved in an hour and a half, and everything's perfect after that, right? Just to address that external layer that, that that's not a thing for all of us, always, for most of us. And also, before we talk about the DID layers, I just want to address these triggers.
The other piece is that the only reason, even though it's just a cartoon movie, the only reason that they were able to do that, even if we're talking about external relationships, was because everyone was doing the work. They did not heal the house or heal the family because just the girl figured things out and because she tried hard enough. That's not the point of the movie. So I just want to say that up front and acknowledge that. I just want to acknowledge that because I know all of us have big feelings about that, and there's lots of layers in that too. So I just kind of want to knock that out and just put that on the table. And then we can move on from there and talking about how we see it as a movie about systems and about what it's like internally, everyone having their very specific role, and the arguments that we have with each other, and the roles that we play and the things that we think we're so good at, and how things fall apart when we are not working together.
I don't know what do you think? I'll let you talk I won't get away.
[Community member speaking] I liked it. I think it addresses the pigeonholing we do really well. Whether you're a mono-minded person or a multi-minded person. How everybody around us expects, as you said Emma, everybody around us expects us to play a part. And how those parts are important to address the whole. So from that perspective, I really thought it was awesome.
[Community member speaking] Looking at it from a DID-. Like, if you just look at the whole thing, it's interesting that they didn't really know each other. Like, they were doing their part, and they were doing their part on their own. Like, it was working, but they were doing their part on their own. And it wasn't until things started to fall apart that they kind of had to start to get to know each other. And how even though they would doing their part, they weren't actually been themselves. I thought that was really interesting. That each person, even the house, everyone was doing everything to be perfect. And I guess what I saw was if I look at the movie as a system, that as everyone tried to be perfect, it started, that's when it all started falling apart. And then they had to learn themselves, each person, each part had to learn, “what, what do I really want? Who am I really?” And then once that happened they could start to work things out together. That was kind of what I was-. I don't know. That's how I was thinking about it.
[Community member speaking] I like the idea of, I mean, not the idea, a resonate, sort of like the idea of like the person who's kind of like banished. Or the person who like knows what the problem is or what's happening, but like nobody else wants to see it so let's just lock them up. Let's just like not say their name and pretend like they're not here. And also the person that's like seen as not having a gift is like one of the most important people. I guess it kind of reminds me too of Inside Out when like Sad is like the most important. The one that's like overlooked or whatever. And also, it's extremely hard for us to sit down and watch a movie. So thank you for helping us do that. It's like impossible. We still couldn't do it. We just can't do. I don't know what that is, but [laugh].
[Community member speaking] Talking about resignating. I really resignated with the girl who could hear everything. And I have this part and they're always listening. They're always on the lookout. And when they're around I hear everything really, really, really loudly. Even the smallest crunkle, a little piece of paper. And I found that really interesting that each gift-. I really don't know what I'm trying to say. But definitely. It really just looks at me really funny.
[Community member speaking] Hey Kim, can I say that you kind of reminded me of the father who got bit by the bees, always supporting all the group. And who got just rolled along, not really bouncing between each person.
[Community member speaking] Yeah, I've got a big nose here, and I’ve got a big ear over here, so that's grand. Yeah. What a failure.
[Community member speaking] No, it's just the way he was supportive. You know, he just accepted people where they were at and tried to understand everybody. And, you know. I just, that's what made me think of that.
When I think about the specific roles everyone played, there were a couple things that I noticed. One was that everyone wore clothes that matched their gift. The design was like embroidered into their little outfits. And they had a specific color or a specific something that represented what their gift was, except for the girl and she was covered in butterflies in her outfit. And she was the only one that had all the colors. And it was like she had all the gifts. But everyone else who just had one gift, it was almost like-. Except for the ones who were ostracized, right? And how many of us as survivors have been the black sheep of our family, or the scapegoat of our family, or have parts like that inside? Like, we just don't talk about Bruno. [Laugh] I’m totally gonna name some insiders Bruno now. I’m like, “Oh, there they are.” Except it turned out that Bruno wasn't a bad guy, right? And all of the people who thought that they were trying to function, and trying so hard to do the right thing, and trying so hard to do what they’re good at were all doing that for other people. And it was interesting because they were not inauthentic. Like the girl that was so strong, trying to lift donkeys and pianos and tables all at the same time just because she wanted-. Like, it wasn't-. It wasn't like she was faking, and it wasn't that she didn't want to be good, it’s that she wanted so much to be good. She needed to be good to be safe. Like, it's fawning, right? All of their gifts were fawning. For other people. Like, it was all for the purpose of being safe externally. Just like their gifts were on their clothes instead of who they were. I don't know, that was just symbolic to me.
And that's, that's the same as, like, so many of us have been the black sheep or so many of us have been the scapegoat or something. There's that piece too. That so many of us have alters or parts or pieces of ourselves, people of ourselves, however you want to say it, that we are not aware of and yet they're so aware of us. Or that we are aware of but avoid, or think that or assume that they're not participating at all, and yet there he was watching like the most intimate moments. Not in a creepy way, but in trying to be present. Like he even had his plate on the table. He had drawn the plate on the table because he so wanted to be a part and he so wanted to participate. And that was as close as he safely could and not cause harm. And I think that maybe just because of what we're going through personally right now, but I think that that was a piece that we resonated with a lot as well in that how often are there people that-. All of the sudden I want to cry. I want to try not to cry cuz I got to function, right? So now I'm gonna power through and lift the piano and the donkeys. But, but how often are there finally safe people that we have found and worked hard on relationships and have them, and then we go away. Not even pushing them away. But we go away and stay back just far enough that we can be safe. Or even because we don't want other people to be in danger because of us.
[Community member speaking] Yeah, I get that. All right. I have no words. I wanted, I wanted to say that too that-. What I wanted to say actually was, you know Bruno and how he's like the scapegoat and he so desperately wants to be there. And like everybody just says he’s always gone away. But then the girl who could hear always knew that he was there and didn't actually say anything or speak up for him because she was trying to be perfect. Because, you know, the mom who was actually just broken herself because she had to push away her feelings. It really helped me understand the pushing of away of feelings. Just even not as DID, even in culture, how people they run away and push away their feelings so that others think that they're okay and that they're acceptable in society. You know? Yeah.
Well, and, and not just that, but even normalizing what it is to be isolated. He was literally living in the walls with the rats and, like, not enough supplies and not quite enough food and just pretending that that was all okay. And I thought, “oh, ha! That's me living in the closet.” Like literally, I'm here. In the closet. Life is great. Do I leave my house? No. No, I do not. At what point is that normal? You know? This morning I had an appointment. On Monday mornings, I have my appointment with the dietician, like the nutritionist. And she had the audacity to say to me today that three meals a day are non-negotiable. [Laughter] What? What does that even mean? Non-negotiable. What do you talk? She's like, “We trust each other enough. I just need to speak to you directly.” [Laughter] And I’m like, “I don’t trust you.” [Laughter] Where is this coming from? What are you talking about? She, and okay, I and I am not trying, I'm not trying to dismiss any struggles with eating or trigger any issues with eating. But I've been working with her for like specific self-care. I realized that there's like a lot of gaps in my knowledge. I think we talked about this on the podcast. That just growing up with neglect and growing up missing skills and different things. Like I just didn't learn properly to care for myself. And so I do eat, but I don't know how to balance my food or actually nourish myself. And when I'm cooking for 10 people every day, like, it's exhausting. And I don't, my youngest daughter needs extra calories because we've got her off the G-tube. And so I have to-. Anyway, it's just a lot. And the grandparents, my husband's parents are in their 90s and struggling and deteriorating, and it's really, really sad. But I need to make sure they're nourished enough. Anyway, so I finally just got help. And she has been very patient and kind. But what happens with me is that I can do really well with breakfast. I can make lunch happen. But then like, I don't care about dinner. Like, I just want to go to bed. I'm tired. I have eaten already. I'm not particularly hungry. So I got the whole speech about mechanical eating, and we worked on that for several months about how our body needs nourishment whether I actually want it or not. And she's like, “You know, some people when they don't eat, they lose a lot of weight and it's a problem. And if they're restricting on purpose, then we call it this. And these people are learning these things. But you just don't eat and so your body stores everything.” And I'm like, [Laughter] “Well I’m a big girl so it just is. I don't know why I didn't get to be skinny girl, but that's cool.” So right, no. So I'm having this discussion with her and trying to make light of it. And she says, “It's non-negotiable that nourishing yourself and drinking water too-“. I'm like, “Oh, I drink this water.” She's like, “Oh, that's not enough for the whole day. You need like five of those.” What's wrong with you? [Laugh] I can't even. I don't have time. I don't have time to drink water. [Laugh] She's like, “That's a problem. We need to talk about.” [Laughter] You know, and so. So it's just-. And I don't mean to get off topic, but that's part of one of the things I saw. Seeing Bruno living inside the walls of the house, I thought that is what I feel like living on this planet watching, like, girls go to their little lunches or whatever they do, or people like moms at the school or-. And I don't just mean like, I'm fear of missing out. I don't care. I have no fears of missing. [Laughter] I'm okay with missing out. What is that, OMO, instead? But I’m literally in the closet, and-. Well not in the closet closet. But I am literally sitting here and I have my little life where I'm trying to take care of the kids, and that's a lot. I'm trying to take care of the in-laws, and that's a lot. So that's all I do, because I respect my spoons. Which is all true. But also, at what point did I just decide that it was okay to be entirely alone in the world? I don't mean, I don't mean that all of it's my fault. I don't mean that in shaming in any way. I just mean, like, at what point did what we grow up with get so normalized that I don't know I need to eat dinner? At what point did being so pushed aside as the black sheep or the scapegoat or whatever, and so ostracize become so normalized that I thought, “Oh, I'm dangerous to the world so I just won't go there,” and feel that as much as “the world is dangerous to me and so I don't want to go there.” Like I don't think until I saw this movie that I realized it was going both ways.
[Community member speaking] Crystals just said she's gonna turn off the camera and eat. I love that. I have to put, I just forget, and I don't know. And sometimes our husbands says that, “Have you eaten today?,” and it’s like one o'clock in the afternoon and I'll go, “No.” I think it's a little bit the same as that. I have an alarm on at the moment. It's actually on for every 90 minutes. That I have something really small every single 90 minutes. And I have this thing here beside me. And I try to make sure I drink two of these because I've got this theory. It's not um-. I'll get back to you Multi Mes. But I've got this theory that if I can get my body nutritionalized, then maybe my brain might start working together and everybody inside, like, I'll be nurturing everybody inside as well. Interesting you were saying how Bruno, like, I think he was very happy to stay inside. Like, come and visit me. It's kind of like what's happened here. We're not in lockdown, I can leave the house, all that other stuff. However, it's so much nicer and easier for the rest of the world, and for me, if we don't leave the house. And I think, I think it's about spoons. You know, we, you know, like you said Emma, you and nourishing your spoons, or nurturing your spoons, or whatever you were doing with these spoons. Like, you know how many spoons you've got. And if you, if I leave the house and do something like grocery shop, man, that's all these things that I don't have and I've wasted all those spoons. So staying-. And also I don't say something really stupid to somebody else at the checkout or something and they just look at me going, “Okay,” and it like wipes half their day away because something dumb has been said. That's why I stay at home. I forgot what you said I was gonna come back Multi Mes. I think I resonate with everyone in that house. Even the house itself. You know how it was like doing all this stuff and it was trying to keep everybody okay. And look at the time, look quick, go and do this. I think the house had a lot of hard work to do. I think the house was running out of spoons. No wonder it was breaking. It really helped me remember we need to work together as a system. I don't know how to make that happen. Maybe I should blow out a candle. I’m not sure. But anyway, I'm interested to hear what others have to say that they're resignate with. Like, say what Multi Mes said.
I just, I just agree with you. But that's my perspective with the Jungian background, that we play all the parts. And so I really resonated, and some of them I did not want to resonate with, and really had to stop and think like, “Okay, what about this really is having to do with me?” I'm just super uncomfortable. So I just, I'm just still reflecting on that, I guess. I think the part that made me uncomfortable with that character Isabella was that she was so trying so hard to be so perfect, that she was really irritable and pushing away the people that actually were nice to her. And I was like, “Oh, pretty sure this is my parenting.” [Laugh] Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like, I don't know. Just, just those days. Today was one of those days for me where I felt like I had a lot to do. It was a classic Monday. I was getting fussed at and corrected by a lot of people about, “Why don't you talk about this? Why don't you do this? Why don't, you need to do this.” Like, people telling me how to do my job, like every job that I have. And, and it's just like, you know what? Because I'm just me, just trying my best. And, and I was thinking about that and applying it in other ways of, what things have I thought were so so hard and I felt so much pressure about, and yet I was kind of doing it to myself in ways that I didn't realize I was doing it to myself? Or parts, whatever, as a system systemically, we were doing that to ourself.
And one of the things that came up for me was even with my previous Kelly. Because yes, this and this and this and this happened and that was hard. All of that's true. But it's also true that I was so busy fawning that I never used my words and said, “Hey, this is what I'm feeling and this is what's happening with me.” And I do not at all mean that it was my fault or my job or any of that. I don't, I don't at all mean any of that. But I never said “Hey, this is going on.” Even when I talked about it on the podcast before I knew it was going to be a two year ordeal that was humiliating for the entire planet. But I never said. And so that's one thing that I finally did this week actually was sent her a letter and say, “This was hard. And this was hard. And this was hard. And this was hard. And this is how I felt. And this is how I experienced it.” And it was brutal. It was really brutal.
But I sent it and I did get a response back today that was actually very apologetic but very authentic, and I feel like heard those pieces. And I feel-. And even though I know that when we're in therapy, it's our therapists job to do the therapist’s job. Absolutely. But I feel badly that it took me like, if this started the year before that, then like three years to even figure out what my system was telling me that was wrong. Like, I think about the cracks in the house. And the only reason it kept cracking and it escalated so much or took so long, was because I couldn't say—maybe that makes me like the Abuela, right?—like, I couldn't say, “This is where my pain is. This is what is hurting me.” And because of that, like it caused this whole dissension, and this dark podcast, and season that we went through. Which I understand all had a purpose, and everyone's been very gracious about. But still, at the same time, I did not have the skills or capacity to directly communicate, “this, this, this.” And finally figuring out how to do that, I feel like I'm was like the daughter getting her hug. Like, I don't mean I need something from the therapist at this point. I have a new therapist. That's going fine. But like the hug for myself almost, of like, so and so who shall remain nameless. And no, I will not say Bruno because then I will get in trouble. But a certain someone who kind of had a point the whole time, and I'm so sorry that I wasn't listening. You know? But to finally say, “Okay. That part of me that I thought you were just only causing trouble, you actually had a point. I should have listened. I'm really sorry. And then it's like flowers and cactus everywhere. You know? Lots of cactus. Cacti. [Laughter]
But there's something about that that brings healing, of just being able to talk about it. And that's not always safe to do or appropriate to do, I know. But just even internally acknowledging it. Like what she said, that's a big confession that you've just said this out loud. You're just doing it for the family. You were just, you don't really like that guy, you don't really. And I thought, what concessions do we give into too because we think it's expected of us because of our system, or because of people around us, or because of fawning, that we need to pause and say, “That's not okay. That's not safe or healthy or good or, you know what? I do want to be a good mom. I want to be a really good mom. But I also have to pee. And I also have to eat sometimes. And I also need to sit down for two minutes.” And you know, whatever. And that you can do those things without causing harm, and actually being more authentic is what brings the healing and teaches them and models that. I don't know. It's a lot of pieces.
Who else we talked there was a boiler was there anything else about her? Crystals?
[Community member speaking] I think that, well, yeah, different ones of us resonate with different ones. But as far as the Abuela, like that group of people, is like our work people and they're probably the most frequent fronters in places. And like, they can go to work and like never stop working. Like, like and it's they're completely disconnected from everything else that's going on until like the house actually falls apart. Then, yeah. And doing things like like, we’ve brung a lot so we don't do this like we used to, but like saying we're fine when we're not, or not even knowing that we're not fine. And I think, right now there's a system conflict, I guess, because we quit our job, which is in part because our mental health just couldn't do it. But that's not what we're showing the world. We're showing the world that we quit our job to start this really cool business that no one's done, and we're so brave. And, but then like we don't have an income and we were terrified to ask our therapist if she could like sign our disability paper, because our other doctor wouldn’t. And it was just like, “We’re fine, like we don't need to, you know.” We're very relieved that she said, “Yes,” because we actually, I don't know, don’t think that we need that, I guess. We can just not have an income and not have health insurance. That's cool.
Survival is non-negotiable Crystals. Kate brought up the strong sister. None of us, none of us, identify with that [Laughter], of being the strong one. And certainly not any alter, or part who is strong enough to front for a Zoom meeting about a movie, of course, we're all fine.
[Community member speaking] I don't know if I missed it or not, but didn’t the strong one juggle those donkeys and the piano and stuff? Because I reckon there's a strong one in here doing all that juggling and that never gets put down. And then more things get added and added and added. And, yeah, all that juggling is what our strong one does. I reckon there needs to be an income though, too, so that we see what they do together. You know.
[Community member speaking] That was my favorite song. So maybe that says something.
[Community member speaking] Which song?
[Community member speaking] The song of her when she was like juggling everything.
[Community member speaking] It's called Surface Pressure, is the name of the song.
[Community member speaking] There was something else that I saw, which was also how [crackling, indistinguishable] she was able to say, “Sometimes I cried too.” “Sometimes I cried too,” is what she said. And I thought it was just interesting. Here she thinks she has to put on this act that she is strong all the time, and that that's what her value is. That's where value comes from, is being able to be strong and juggle everything, and carry everything and move everything and do it all. And yet she admits that sometimes by herself, she'll cry. And then I don't remember who it was, but said, “And that's okay. We all do.” And I thought that that was just such a beautiful scene of her being, you know, told that it's okay to be you. You don't have to fit on that front. So that was something that we could really relate to as well.
[Community member speaking] Part of this group that meets once a week or so, whenever. And we’re looking at our human design charts and she was like, “You're here to feel. You're here to cry.” And I was like, “I never cry.” And she was like, “Well, that's why you're here. You need to cry or something.” And then the next week in the group, like, I started crying and had no idea why. And I was just crying and nobody noticed. And I was like, so trying to hide it and trying not to and being like, I just need to touch my face. And then finally somebody noticed and then they all like paid attention. And were really, they were really nice. They were really sweet. And she was just like, “Your tears are like gold.” Like, but it was just like, even though she had said that before, it was still so hard to like, I don't know, be there like that.
[Community member speaking] Kim, can I put you on the spot?
You can always put Kim on the spot.
[Community member speaking] Everyone can. I don't mind.
[Community member speaking] I just wondered, being somebody who does not dissociate as far as I know, did this movie help you understand maybe a little bit what it could be like being someone who dissociates if you look at it from a DID perspective.
[Community member speaking] I went into the movie trying to look at it that way, because of the logos on the, on our website. But I just kind of felt like I was seeing, I guess, bits and pieces of me in it. I wasn't really looking at it from, I guess you would say, a Plural or DID perspective. But I saw me in all of those places. I saw me as the house. I saw me as Bruno. Like, I could see pieces of me in each character. So I definitely got it as far as, “I can see how this could be like a super problem,” or, “I used to do that when I was little.” And even some stuff today, I'm like, “I wonder if I still do that now.” So there were some takeaways that I have. So I was seeing it from my perspective. And so as you all have been talking tonight, I'm seeing it now from a DID perspective. And I'm like, it’s a little deeper than what I was seeing for me. Because, you know, that's a whole other ballgame that you guys have going on. But I could see it and I can see the challenges, but I could also see the reward or the risk or the reward of it if you can come out on the other side. Especially when you all are talking about Bruno and how he's especially, I think it was Kate who was saying like he had, or someone who say, he had his own little plate. And he's like watching through the thing because he still wants to be a part. And I know that in talking to some of you here, and in talking to the Crew, like there's someone who's always like peering through. And they all know that they’re peering. They never really come out with everyone, but they're always watching. And like, I think it was Emma who was saying, “It's not creepy if they are there, but they're just for whatever reason, not fully present.” And so I'm like, hmmm, maybe it's a Bruno thing.
What about, what about just looking at all the characters? What about the one that was a shapeshifter? None of us would ever do that, using different presentations to deal with what was happening in life. Let's just take a raise of hands. No, [Laughter] I'm kidding. Oh, my goodness, right? Seriously.
[Community member speaking] No, I think it's called fronting. I think that's what I do. Like, cuz is when somebody is really close, or if somebody is influencing me, it's like, shapeshifting, although I'm still there. Anyway, that's just how I see it. Because I just saw, “Oh, yes.” That's what I think anyway.
[Community member speaking] Think of that as someone might pretend to be someone else so that no one outside knows who they are. Like pretending to be the host, or pretending to be the one who's supposed to do their job.
Kay, I’ve experienced that when I have been in situations where there were people who thought they knew me, or knew our system, or knew about DID, but we did not feel safe letting them know who was out or switching in front of them. And I don't even know how we do it. Like, I could not say, “Oh, this is how we do that,” or, “this is how I asked them to do that.” But I have felt it happen and been aware that that's the context that it was happening.
[Community member speaking] Same kind of thing. We read this book. That's YA novel called Everyday, and it's about this person that is in a different person's life every day. Like, wakes up in a different person's life and like pretends like they're the person, even though they're their own person. And it was like such a good book as far as the experience of being multiple and, like, pretending. Like, like if a kid or whoever has to pretend like we're all the same person all the time, or pretending to know things that you don't know or that you know people you don't know, or-.
[Community member speaking] Does that happen to you too? Someone's talking to you and you're supposedly know them, Crystals, and you don't. And they're talking to you and it's like, “Okay, yeah.” And does that happen to you?
[Community member speaking] We're super good at it. Like so good that we don't even realize it's happening anymore. Like, we just like, “oh, I guess I don't remember that person.” Like, it wasn't like until we got into recovery and our sponsor was like, “Go introduce yourself to three people you don't know in like every meeting.” And we introduced ourselves to the same person three times and had long conversations with that person. And she was like, “Are you serious?” Like, I was like, “Okay, we're not, we're not doing that anymore.” But sometimes what happens is the person who knows either comes front and then it just feels like, “oh, we just remembered. It was just out of context.” But now being around like, a bunch of people are Plural, like, we're learning that that's-. Like, that person either comes up or they tell us. And so it's not that the person that was out actually, like, remembered. But I don't know. But like, when you live with it, you don't realize it's not everybody does that. Like, singulars people don't do that.
[Community member speaking] And I think as well like, it's like, the ultimate camouflage. Like if I think about a chameleon, if he goes walking in the sand, he becomes the sand. And I think to like for us, I like to think that's how my brain kind of does it. Even if I'm not the person who knows the person I'm talking to, I know how to say the right things even though I don't know why and have no memory or context to it. And then like you said, like over time and over the years you just go with it like it's normal before you kind of realize that it's not normal and people are like waving you down. And then when you start that like, I guess, awareness of DID is when you actually, or for us anyways, when we actually thought, “Oh, hang on. I have no idea who this person is. But they're talking to the person behind me. Like, what the frick is going on?” That's what happened for us anyway. It actually got worse.
[Community member speaking] It's kind of like that, “Oh, I do lose time. No, I don't.”
[Community member speaking] Yeah. And when, even with the movie, just indicative of our lives at the moment, I can even recall saying I was up and down, grocery shopping online, like came back, like. I just couldn't sit still with it. I don't know. I found it really hard to watch, [laugh] which is so stupid. But I'm the same as you, Crystals. Can't watch movies. I'm really bad at sitting there and watching them. But then also, I reckon I could probably write a novel about what happened.
[Community member speaking] But we can sit and watch some scary thing about what's going to happen in the future about this whole world and watch that for two hours. But we can't watch [indistinguishable].
[Community member speaking] Yeah, or like murder, murder documentary or something like that. Like, that's fine.
[Community member speaking] I think what we do with the shapeshifting thing is that we are just good at simulating excitement to see people. Because we are excited to see people. But also like getting, switching the focus to them so that they're talking, and so that that like-. I don't know. You just learned all these little things.
[Community member speaking] Yes, that is so, so, so true. It's so easy to get people to talk about themselves.
[Community member speaking] You guys have a good toolbox. That's why I stay at home because I don't have that toolbox. And I nap. And I make fools of myself constantly. Like, “Do I know you?” “Yeah,” they say. And I go, “Okay, I'm sorry. My memory is really bad.” You know? But that's why I stay at home.
[Community member speaking] See, in that context, I would just be like, “Oh, Hi. How you doing? How's your day?” Like, and just make the biggest small talk before I could figure out, try and figure out or try and get the memory of who the hell this person is and how we know them. Or like, ask more open ended questions to try and figure it out.
[Community member speaking] We're just talking about what's happening in the present, like, “Oh, are you even talking about conference?” or whatever it is. And then two days later, “oh, that's how I knew that person.” [laugher]
[Community member speaking] It goes back to the eating thing, I think. You know, like, never being taught, never been taught. Like, I don't know, maybe most people get this just normally. But never been taught how to relate to somebody else. I've never been taught, you know, how to clean. Like, our adult daughter came over and she said to me, “I had to learn what clean was.” And I'm thinking, “Oh my goodness, I don't even know what clean is myself. Like, what is that?” It's almost as if I want to find life lessons, like the stuff that you learned as a kid just haphazardly. But it didn't happen for us.
[Community member speaking] I get so much of that kind of stuff with parenting. And like, so worried about the things that I don't know that I don't know. I find that really difficult. As much as everybody's like, “You're great. You're doing fine.” It’s like no, but what about the stuff I don't know about? But I think for us the sad thing when you go along with people, I forget the word, but like being able to talk to people, I suppose. Like, I think for us, that was the biggest coping mechanism that we had, because if we were able to talk to people and engage with people and talk about them and not talk about us, and make sure that they knew that we were fine, like, then that's what they thought. That was the biggest way for us to keep safe. So I guess that's maybe a reason as to why we're good at it. Not necessarily that we were taught good manners or like, proper ways of doing it. But that we figured out that that was like whoa, actually, like critical for our survival.
[Community member speaking] But I just want to let you know that I resignate with what you said so much. And when you're stopping to try and think of an example, that's the exact example that I thought of in my head that I struggle with, when I parent my own kids that I did give birth to, that I don't remember, but I did. And that hugging is just so hard. And like I literally in my head am screaming. “Get off me. Get off me You're tricking me. Get off me.” And trying to keep that experience internal so that they have a positive external experience.
[Community member speaking] Do you know what I-. Do know what I've learned how to do with the huggling and the giving huggles and when they can? It's really, might sound really strange, but because everything inside of me just like freezes and tingles and it's really hard, what I do is I imagine that maybe they would be like me and I would be the nurturing mother. Maybe it’s that Jungian thing again. But then when I'm nurturing and I'm hugging them thinking, “Okay, I'm hugging the little part of me so that I'm, I'm actually, while I'm nurturing them, I’m somehow nurturing a little in me.” And that's weird and seem really selfish, but that's how I’m able to hug my children now, because I imagine hugging a Little and that they're getting better. And if they're better, maybe I'll be better. That's what I think.
[Community member speaking] That just blew my mind.
I’m really really uncomfortable. [Laughter] I feel like it is a healthy and good and right thing that you have come up with, and I hope someday to attain it. But I think that if I imagine them in my mind, that means admitting that they're there. [Laughter] Oh, my goodness. I want to crawl out of my skin right now. I want to take my ears off. I'm trying to leave my ears on so I can keep listening. Somebody did not like that at all. [Laughter]
[Community member speaking] Anyway, it resignated with a little boy.
[Community member speaking] I'm always the oddball. I wanted to hug him. And, you know, it's a kid.
I think that's so tender and so sweet, what both of you share. Even though I'm teasing, but not teasing, about how uncomfortable it might look there. I'm not crying at all, but there are tears pouring down my face. You can't see them because the lights are so bad here. Just pouring. Like, I'm fine. I'm not crying. But someone is bawling. Tears just pouring down my face. They're not even mine. [Laughter] But both of you, what you said was so tender, like her saying, “He was a kid. Of course, I just wanted to scoop him up and hug him.” You know, like. I don't have that response. I have like this aversion. And my house is full of children. And I, and so I carry the shame that I don't know why, like, why can't I just soften like that? Maybe, maybe that will come in time, but they're going to be grown before I get there. Like I'm trying. I'm trying.
[Community member speaking] It still matters, Emma. And I'm sorry. I don't wish for it on anybody. But it still matters.
[Community member speaking] I think that's why I collect animals. I'm not allowed to collect children. But I'm waiting and, sorry, I'm waiting for the nurturing to happen. Sorry that made you laugh. But that yeah. I have, I just got three more chickens. I have 10s of 1000s of bees. I have two dogs, a cat. And I want more. But I can't nurture the dogs and the bees either. But I'm waiting. I know it's gonna come. Yeah.
[Community member speaking] But I think the point is, it's not our fault. It's not something that’s wrong with us so that we can't do it right or that it doesn't come naturally to me, because I don't think that's true for any of us.
[Community member speaking] For us, it's like, one of the younger ones has learned a lot from animals, because it's like she's learned that cats, that you don't just go running at the cat, cuz the cat will run away. Or groundhogs will run away. And that if you go slowly, a cat will be like, “Oh, okay, now you can pet me.” Or, “now you can look at me.” Because there's a cat cafe nearby and it's fun to walk by and stare in the window even its super cold out, like to walk by, and there'll be a cat, and some of them just totally ignore you. And then some of them kind of come looking at people right now, because people can't go spend time with the cat, so their only interaction is kinda like through the window. Some people will actually stare in, like staring at me briefly. Some other ones ignore you. And it's almost like seeing Antonio and how he interacts so well already with animals. It's almost like animals help teach everyone, or especially younger ones, how to like interact, because they provide that I guess unconditional love and they show it in that way.
[Community member speaking] I guess the other thing I'm thinking of as well is that-. Actually no. That I'm trying to learn. I actually had this question in therapy. I don't know which therapy, but a therapy. I was like, “What even is love? Like how does a parent show their child that they love them?” Because I wanted to make sure that I was doing that for Mikey. And I think, I mean, I have no idea which. I can't recall what she said. But I think the thing is like touch and hugging and all those kinds of things that most of us find so difficult is just one aspect of love. And then we might not get it right a lot of the time, and it might be really painful for us, but I'm sure that we all show our kids love in so many different other ways that, you know, they can get a hug off their dad or their uncle or their Auntie or a friend or something like that to fill up that little part of their cup, if we don't do it right on a certain day or anything like that. I think the thing to remember is that, yeah, it's only one aspect of love. There's so many other ways that we can show our children love that they're like, quote, unquote, normal population, or-. I don’t know what’s a nice way to put it. Normal population can't do that, we can. You know, we've got so many things to offer our kids that most parents wouldn't be able to offer their children. So with the good comes the bad.
Well, and what about not just like those tender moments, like you've shared about with your kids or wanting to scoop him up and hug him? What about the part of us like that needs to receive that? Like the part of us that where food is not negotiable? Because they're so innocent that they need nourishment? What about the part of us that just needs care or tending to or whatever love looks like in safe, meaningful ways to them? So not just how do we give love, whether that's so outside children or pets or nieces and nephews or cousins or anything, but also receiving that. How do you receive that innocence as a part of yourself?
[Community member speaking] That might be 20 years times of therapy work?
[Community member speaking] I was gonna say that's in the too hard basket.
[Community member speaking] For me, I'm blessed that I had family that never gave up. They showed up and they kept showing up and they never stopped. They remember my past. I don't. They know what that's from. And they never gave up on me. And it would just wore me down. [Laughter] It got easier to say, “Okay, my God, I'll go to this function.” Or I have a bad habit of engaging and then disengaging, engaging and disengaging, and my family actually keeps track. So it's accountability. And even when I faked it-. And I don't mean fake it like I don't care for him. I think we all care for each other. You know, we're humans. Even when you try to fake it, it just eventually sticks. I just had to allow it to stick, I guess. I don't know. But, yeah, unfortunate. I don't, I don't rely on my therapist I think the way that some have to. And that's heartbreaking to me. Because I've got family and friends that role model to me what these things could be that’s so hard for other people. Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. And I don't mean to be a toxic Pollyanna, either. I just want to have hope. I just wish everybody could have it. You know? As long as it takes. You're worth it. Everybody's worth it.
Yeah, and I don't, I don't think that's an example of toxic positivity at all. I think it's just, at least for us, it's two different lessons. To learn to give love and connect, either internally or externally, littles or bigs or friendships or whatever, and also to receive. Like, they’re two separate, at least for us—I don't know, maybe it's more integrated than that and I'm just not there—but it's, it feels like two separate, at least for where we are, it's two separate lessons. Because there's a lot I can do for others that I don't know how to do for myself. There's a lot of innocence I can see in others, that is hard to remember is a part of me.
[Community member speaking] I think it's hard to have those kind of two way relationships. Like I feel like I connected deeply with therapists, and I've connected deeply when I've like, back way back when I was seeing clients, in a different way. That both of those were like one way relationships that weren't like reciprocal. And like the reciprocal part is really, I don't know. I guess I don’t know how to take turns.
[Community member speaking] I am a bit the same there. And I was thinking like, “What is love even feel like?” You know? I don't know what it feels like. And like a friend will say, you know, just a friend friend, and she'll say, “I love you. I wish we could spend more time together.” And I'm just going, “You do? Why? What for?” You know? And like Emma was saying, I’m willing, like me us here, willing to do the nurturing and the loving for someone else. But me personally, who I am right this second, I'm not willing to receive any love, because there's some good solid thick brick walls there. And, yeah, 20 years later, thank you very much.
[Community member speaking] Emma, I just want to say that as odd as this may sound, I feel like I'm beginning to understand love a little bit better just from this group. Just the comments that people say, “I hear you, you matter, and I care.” Regardless of anything else, those words are the beginning of saying, “Is that what it's supposed to be?” So this community has been huge in that kind of way. When my children tell me, you know, “I love you,” it's like, well, that's a child speaking to parent. But it's accepting and believing that that love isn't gonna shift to something else, anywhere else, often feels like it's impossible. But here it's like everyone knows what that feels like so it feels so genuine. Even though I don't know any of you, except for your face online. [Laughter] But it feels genuine. It feels like that hug through the words, like a hug through the screen at a meetup. It feels like-. And it's a safe hug because nobody's touching me, but I can sense the presence of that kind of care. So, System Speak is, I don't know how we found it. I have zero idea how we got here. [Laughter] But we did, and it's just such a blessing. Thank you for putting this together.
[Community member speaking] That was a nice hug.
[Community member speaking] Yeah, I felt that one all the way in Australia.
I have one last question. The other character that we have not talked about yet is the house itself. We referenced it a little bit. But in like Jungian dream work or things like that, a house is usually like your consciousness. Or in a DID framework, like what would that be? Would that be the body? Would it be that flow between parts that somehow connects us even when we're not remembering or aware of it? What, what is that? And then how interesting is it that when the house began to crack—split, right? When the house began to crack and split, the first damage that really happened was that like the roof shingle falling off, and like that protection. And when we are not taking care of each other, whether that's externally like she was sharing about the community or whether that's internally with our system community inside, what we lose is protection. What we lose is safety. And that feels significant too. And I think that's part of what makes like what she shared, that safe hugs safe, is when we are working together and those cracks are healed and things are smoothed out and our house is strong, and whatever our house is, then there's that protection that comes as part of it.
[Community member speaking] No, I thought the house was the body too. And the villagers would have been my family.
[Community member speaking] They go outside.
[Community member speaking] Yeah, like my groups inside my house, but I have the villagers out there to help. If something brakes apart, they come in. They may not have names and things like that.
[Community member speaking] While I was watching it the first time, this was the second time, the first time was like, the other day or something. I actually was waiting for the, I was waiting for that like the whole village, I thought the whole village was. And I was actually waiting for like the mountains. I was thinking was, you know, the original husband sort of died and he gave her that candle, I thought that whole new world was her inner space. You know how the tapestry talks about it? That inner world. And everything was just so beautiful. And even the villagers was just so beautiful. And, and I was waiting the whole movie for when it all crumbled, that it would open up and they'd actually see the outer world and see what they had sort of missed, and that everybody was inside. That's what I was thinking of. And the house was just, was not just, but the house was another part of that inner world. That's what I, the first time I saw it, that's how I saw it. But it didn't happen.
Well, and that brings up the question if, just in the metaphor, everything including the villagers even are inside, then what part of me is that? [Laughter] If we're so busy tearing the house down that we're not helping each other, then it puts all of us at risk. Right?
[Community member speaking] Se that be part of what resignated with me, because of like different groups of parts, maybe? Does that make sense? Yeah, exactly. That like when I look at it now, I think like, if I just look at the house and like, “Where are all the parts of the people?” There should be millions. The ants parts of people too. Like, where are all the rest of them? And so when I thought about that, that connected me with the village in that, you know, the people inside the house didn't necessarily know each other very well. And that was kind of the journey, I suppose. But then there's a whole another journey just outside that's not even through the hills. Does that make sense? This metaphor is confusing me.
[Community member speaking] You guys remember in the movie, where Mirabel looks in the doorknob and she sees herself, and she says, “I see me,” and that cuts scene to everybody behind her? That was huge to me. That was huge. And as far as leave-. I got the boundary of external world from the mountains. And remember when-. What was the name of-. Abeula? The matriarch grandmother went out to the external world where she experienced trauma. And she went there looking for Mirabel. And to me, that was the outside world. And that was the outside world that was interfering with what was going on.
[Community member speaking] You know, there's this beautiful house, or so it looks like. Yet it's crumbling in the midst. And it's like, that's the past. That's the past that was being held together by what looked like everything was good, but it really isn't. And it's, in the end they rebuild the house. And when they do, she says, “It isn't perfect.” And they're like, “But it's good enough.” And to me that was a huge. It was a beautiful rebuilding of a real life. Imperfect, yet wonderful. Everybody run to it, to celebrate and be together in the house. And that there was a realness to the desire to be together in celebration of the rebuilding and experiencing the present life, rather than this divided life as people who were living together, but nothing about it was authentically, was authentic. So it was just, that's how I experienced it.
[Community member speaking] You mean a host that doesn't have any clue? [Laughter] I don't know what's going on sometimes, guys. But I own that. I own it. So, and then we talk about the destruction of the house being a bad thing? Maybe it was a necessarily, maybe it was a necessary good thing. Maybe in destroying the house, in the destruction of the house, without it they wouldn't have been able to build a better foundation. You know? God this is getting really sappy. Sorry.
[Community member speaking] No, I totally agree with you. Because like we have to start with a new solid foundation. It was one of the lines that they said. And how important it was that the old had to be torn down in order to build something new that was strong and was gonna sustain, you know, be substantial. I thought was pretty deep that whole, that whole scene. Then for her to look in, and to see herself and to see yourself into the future, if you will, and that the past, you know, everything didn't end in her life because the past was gone, but that she was now entering into a new future life.
[Community member speaking] If you think about the last podcast-. Not the last podcast, but the first phase, it's like all those cracks that Emma had to go through. What horrible as they were, and gosh, you want to hurry them along. Like get a sledgehammer, hurry up, hurry up. Like, we don't want this to take forever. But at the same time, could you imagine how bad it would have been like with a sledge hammer? Um, but, yeah, I love that. I love your perspectives. It's just brilliant. You guys are gold.
I think, I think for us, we sort of, I felt like, I, I felt like the row of trees that were between the House and the villagers. And I felt like I could see all of the house of like, of course, they over here are the magical ones who like when we're little have this imagination and create this whole problem that now I think is a problem of DID, right? But for them was magical and safety and special gifts and ways of protecting us and created a little world. So there they are still in the house in Memory Time. And I'm like, but I'm over here. I want to be in the village. I want to be functioning. I want to be living a life. But do I? Because I'm not there. But I'm scared to go back to the house. But as long as I'm not helping them, I don't even want to say this out loud, as long as I'm not helping them then that house is falling apart. They are by themselves afraid and scared and stuck in Memory Time because they cannot do it without the villagers, without the present Now Time. You can even call it, some people call like the villagers the ANPs. And the house would be the EPs right? And, and like they're, of course they're falling apart because they're carrying too much by themselves. They cannot do it alone. It took the other people coming in with tools and resources and help and lots of connection to be able to fix it, to heal it, to make it better. But then I'm like, that's a lot.
[Community member speaking] It’s almost like the house had to fall completely apart for their entire family to see, or like, Mirabel’s, the rest of her family to see, “oh, this is how bad things are.” Everyone saw the house falling down and like saw them looking for her. It's almost like, then almost like that forcing you to open your like dirty secrets to like the world. It's like, now everyone's seeing it. So you can't keep on that the perfect thing. It's almost like your perfect act is broken down. But now they've all seen it, since like you might as well accept their help, because now they know.
Yes. And the house itself, like down to those last doorframes did everything to protect the girl. Right? Everything. Even to like it's dying breath when it finished, and the little shutter just sighed. [Laughter] Like that was so dramatic. But, but to protect her. And then yet when it came back to life when she comes back to it and puts the doorknob in, like it has its own its own response to welcoming her, and inviting not just her, but everybody goes inside together. And it's excited to see her and it's welcoming and safe, which is very different than everybody else running away from her. Like the house welcomed her in a way her family did not.
[Community member speaking] And you will notice when they're talking, you know how the family pictures how Mirabel wasn’t in the picture because she didn't have like the magic. But then the husbands who had married into the family were in the picture.
[Community member speaking] Keep going. Keep going.
[Community member speaking] I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that because I guess it’s sort of a significant thing about how she's not included because she didn't get a gift when she came of age. But how I guess the people who married in, they’re included, because it’s known they married in.
[Community member speaking] I wasn't clear if she didn't exclude herself. I don't know. Like, it seems kind of like to me that she kind of just didn't go get in the picture.
Well, but also they didn't invite her or wait for her or ask. And so, so I mean, I think a little of both are true. But also, that thinking about symbols, right? Like, the order of things that should have included her caused that relational trauma. That's so hard to talk about. They weren't physically attacking her, but the verbally and emotionally and relationally, there was so much trauma. And when they chose family, she wasn't part of the chosen family either. And so I think that's a good point, Kate. And, and I think that developmentally, a lot of that happens. Where when we are little bitty in our families of origin, we feel all this relational trauma. But then, as we grow up and hit these other developmental tasks, if that trauma’s not tended to, then we're still missing out on these things and we have relationship problems. Or we're, because we're the black sheep, we're left out of so and so's wedding. Or we have to behave if we show up to this event or that event. Or we aren't allowed to make waves. Or we are punished by being excluded. And, and that's that relational trauma now at an adult level. That's intense. That's intense. And it was just all symbolized in a photograph.
[Community member speaking] Well, and also my, I don't know what this means. But my view of like, making it her fault, or making it my fault. Like, like, “Oh, I just didn't go,” instead of like, for some reason I wasn't comfortable going, for it didn't feel safe. I didn't want to go. Like why didn't I want to go?
Well, and still thinking, “because we're not good enough.” And so not recognizing, “I'm not involved here in this moment because I'm not safe to go to that moment, to step into that moment. So I'm still excluded.” But I think it's shame. Like, it's that shame that comes from misattunement. That I only feel the shame. I don't recognize, hey, like the girl, like her seeing the cactus, right? Like, I don't think “oh, this is actually brilliant that I have decided not to go to this toxic moment with the family.” And instead, I just feel, “Oh, shame, this is my fault. I'm not good enough. I'm not included. I'm not wanted. I'm not loved. I'm not whatever enough to be approved enough to be invited, to be chosen.” When really, we know it's toxic, and so good for us for not being there, and it gets flipped. And that's interesting, even to feel that gaslighting in the movie right after the holidays. You know, it's just kind of a lot, it's a lot.
[Community member speaking] Well, here, I've got a statement for that. They seem to be the people who are actually a part of it all, by giving her like placates, you know, nice things. “You are enough. Remember, you know, du du du du.” But then they didn't actually do anything too, right towards the end. You know, they just, they knew what was going on. They told her nice things. But they didn't, they didn't change anything. That's just my thinking. They are lovely people on the outside. Everybody sees them as lovely people on the outside. Lovely to her. But did they actually do anything to change the circumstances? And I will leave on that note because…
[Community member speaking] Mic drop.
So So to close this out, what do you take from the movie that you need to apply for your system? And if part of what does not distress them, or part of what heels is that they finally make actual changes, what changes do you need to be making? [Laugh]
[Community member speaking] I can say what I think needs to happen. You know, I would love my system to be able to communicate with each other and not blame anyone. You know? There's still so much blame. And you know, those three little kids that are part of the community, they were always just on the outside, but nobody kind of really knew what was going on with them. It's like some of my littles. They're not actually in that house. But until they get into the house and everybody's working together, nothing can be changed here.
[Community member speaking] See, like teamwork, communication instead. So keeping the communication channel open, and keeping on top of everyone's needs. Not to sort of get, taking on too many outside tasks and forgetting about my own needs, and that I cannot help others if I don't take care of my own needs first.
[Community member speaking] I was just gonna say, and being proud of the things that you do, sometimes, e.g. the cactus. It’s a cactus! Good job us. We do not do that. We can try.
I think for us, it's about just even acknowledging that there's a house, and that I can't just hide in the bushes. [Laughter] I can't keep not going in the house and not participating in the village. Like, the house is gonna fall down and it's impacting the village. The cracks went through the main street of the village by the end. And I think that's where I'm at, and where we've been for a while of-. And I know we've had all these sort of dysregulating disruptions to therapy and everything, but I feel like if things are going to get better then, like they said, I have to do something. I have to make changes. And I have to acknowledge that the house is there. Which seems terrifying, especially when you see it falling down. Like, who wants a house that's falling down? That doesn't help. It's hard to, it's hard to believe that it can be different. Like when you see a house falling down literally in front of you. It's hard to believe, “Oh, this is going to be magical if we just work together.” Instead, it just feels like a disaster and exhausting and humiliating, and all of those things. But if working together, or dare I say inviting them in, how do I, how do I-. Instead of being afraid of the house, how do I be like the house that was so eager and welcoming? I don't know. That's horrifying, to me, I think. But there's something about it that finally made things safe for everybody. The village and the house, and the people in the house and around the house, the animals, everything was better then. And that ending view with the mosaic on the floor, it's just such a simple symbol and it made me think even like of our Mandala Mondays. And that there's this expression, that there is somehow, even though I have all these anxieties and all this avoidance, there is something in me that is eager and welcoming and ready to heal. And how do I trust that instead of just worrying about what needs repair? Because if it's the welcoming and the inviting and the entering that is what repairs it, then the mess is irrelevant. But it's hard to remember that in the moment. And so I think there's something for us to do there. Like what they said about compassionate embodiment. And maybe sometimes it's simple things. Like when the village came in to fix everything, they all were bringing different tools and resources and things. And so maybe, maybe it really is the small and simple things. Maybe it really is nourishing myself three times a day. Maybe it really is sleeping through the night. Maybe it really is going for a walk every day. You know? And so just trying to trust that and see what happens, I guess. Like, how much worse could things get? Really I don't want to ask the universe that question. [Laugh] But really, really, just what would happen if I trusted the process? What if instead of being afraid I sang fancy songs and did a little dance number? I don’t know. [Laughter] It's just a lot to think about. It's a lot to think about.
And how wild is it that in the vision that Bruno had this whole time, that it was a hug that healed things? Like to me that's so symbolic. It's mortifying. It's horrifying. It's so scary. Except also there's something tender about it. And there's something that reminds me of the Community, like they were sharing earlier. And there's something special in that of, “We're going to be okay if we're together, and we're keeping ourselves safe and each other safe.” And look at how much healing and progress we've all made, you guys, it's only been six months. Six months since we started the Community. And I have done more, at least for me, I've done more healing work in the last six months than the last two and a half years. And I know that that's a part of it. And so, how, like, even though it's scary-. Like, I'm thinking about our first Community when it was so scary, and it was so hard for any of us to talk, and we were focused on even talking about the Community just to like, even get ourselves going and be introduced to the process and getting to know each other. And now it's not a thing. Like, I'm like, I'm trying to come to groups. I'm trying to get kids taken care of and throw a movie together when I can at bedtime. And now it's not such a big deal, right? And so what, how much easier would things be inside if I just dared to try it? If I just let it be instead of fighting it so hard? And how quickly would things heal if I stopped causing the cracks? [Laughter] It's, it's something. I don't know. It's something.
But I thank you for joining us tonight. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad to see your faces. And I am glad you say good night in peace after stirring up so much. [Laugh] That was a lot. So peace to you. And thank you for this adventure. And I'm so grateful. Truly. There are not words. There are not words. Just thank you.
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