Transcript: Episode 276
276. Emails (Littles)
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
[Note: The contents of emails being read in this episode are in italics.]
An anonymous person wrote in and shared: Thank you for the way you handled the episode on vaccines. We just had a pretty big trigger with our housing around vaccines. And then we saw that the episode was labeled “Vaccines” and we were scared to listen. It was so encouraging the way you talked about this hot topic and stayed focused on what was important for your healing and for the struggles people with trauma are having. Things are really hard for us now because we don't feel any of the hope that so many people around us seem to be basking in. We are now more scared than ever, and are feeling great despair. This is compounded by fears that if we express or talk about our concerns, people will believe we are dangerous when all we want to do is to help and for people to be safe and healthy. We feel guilty for doing what you said, which is to listen to ourselves and know what is right and good for us. We are at war with ourselves and are afraid we might lose this battle. The conflicts between popular opinion and what we know to be true feel like too much. Wishing yours and your family the best.
That is such a difficult place. You guys, one of the hardest things about the pandemic, no matter what side of politics you're on. And a pandemic is about keeping people alive. So even that should not be politics. But it did get to be about politics, at least here in the States, right? And so that's really unfortunate. But regardless of what your politics are, that experience of your community that you felt safe in not supporting you or not understanding your perspective is a very painful, painful thing. It is one of the things that we went through last year where some of the people that we thought were the safest people—who literally defined what safety meant for us—did not speak up when people were targeting our brown daughters, and did not take quarantine seriously when for us it was a matter of life and death for our daughter. And even if those were the right choices for them, which it may be for you as well, the misattunement between those experiences feels like danger. And your brain only recognizes the signals of danger; it does not have the context to understand the different ideas of why you should or should not be vaccinated. Right?
So like we have our friend whose son has leukemia. Because he has leukemia, he cannot get vaccinated right now for anything. For anything. He will have to get revaccinated for everything later after chemo. Right? And so he cannot get vaccinated. And yet, even though we got vaccinated, we can still offer understanding and support even though she had a different experience with her children than what we will have with ours when ours do get vaccinated. And so there's just such a call for sensitivity and for caring and for understanding that people are doing the best with what they know. And when they don't know, or when they don't have accurate information, it's harder to know well what to do. But the start, the very start of knowing comes with trusting your intuition, and comes with experimenting in making decisions for yourself and seeing how that plays out. And sometimes that's messy.
You guys, last year every decision we made was such a disaster. That's what it felt like. I know that that's a big broad statement, but that's what it felt. Like in trying to stand our ground, we hurt people's feelings. In trying to keep quiet, instead of standing our ground, we hurt people's feelings. And trying to learn how to mediate between that, we got so overwhelmed and so confused sometimes in thinking we could reach out, because we thought that we had learned how to reach out and we were practicing how to connect, and we tried that and got nothing. And so reaching out felt dangerous instead of helpful. Other times, we thought, “Well, that was bad, so we won't reach out.” And then we got in trouble for not reaching out. Like it was so hard to learn, you guys.
And when you go through relational trauma growing up, no one teaches you how to fix that. And everybody else has all this knowledge on how to navigate these social situations, or friendships, or boundaries, or rules, or different roles in the community, all these kinds of things. People understand that when they grow up with healthy families. And when you didn't grow up with how healthy families, it's really hard to figure all that out. And when there are things like quarantine separating people so that you can't have conversations to ask, or to learn, or people won't talk about it, then that becomes, it’s triggering in a whole new way. Because it feels toxic. The same as the past was toxic, right, with secrets. And now here, you're supposed to be healthy people, and yet, you won't talk about this, and you won't talk about this, and you won't talk about this. And when I try this and this and this, you don't respond. And so it means that I'm the common denominator again, and we're back to reenactments, and I'm the one who's wrong. And so how do I learn how to do this? Like, it's so hard.
So whatever is going on with you, and I'm sorry that it's impacted your housing even. But you absolutely, absolutely need to listen to your intuition, trust yourself for what is the right decision for you, and get whatever information you need to make an informed decision and go with that. Listen to yourself and know what is right and good for you. And those moments when you feel at war with yourself? What helps is just like with friends in the community, outside friends, the same thing: listen to each other, talk to each other. Why are these the concerns? What is the trigger? What is the need? Why are some people digging their heels in on this ground, and some are digging in over here? Like why is that? How can it be negotiated? What is the solution? Like, be creative and open the box, so to speak, of how you can listen to each other and work together. Because what will help is when it's you all as a system against whatever the problem is, as opposed to the problem coming between you. That's also true with relationships with outside people, right? Whether that's a spouse or a partner or a friend. If you two are united against the problem, then you will be fine, which is very different than a problem coming between you two. I hope that helps. And we wish you the best as well.
Kelsey says: I recently stumbled upon your podcast after my therapist sent me the YouTube video for the ISSTD hosted webinar for DID Awareness Day. Yay, I'm so glad you got to watch it. I first of all have to say I'm very glad to have done so because it has provided me with the solidarity I've been needing. I won't expand much on just how much I relate to you, your system, or what your guests on the podcast say; I feel as if the list would go on and on. I have been diagnosed for four years with DID and I still break down with shame, and I'm getting really tired of pushing away from acceptance. I want to continue listening to your podcast because it does provide comfort to me. And it's a way I can keep going and stay in touch with the DID community would be to help in this capacity. It really does provide comfort to me. I'm so glad. That's so very kind of you. Thank you.
Kelsey also volunteered to help with transcripts. And I'm so grateful. There have been about six or seven or eight people who have stepped up to say they want to help with transcripts, and we have sent them the information. We have gotten only one episode back. But I'm grateful for that one even though, because even that is one more down out of 250 episodes to go. So thank you all those of you who are helping with transcripts.
Chantelle says: I just finished listening to your episode on the Healing Together Conference 2021, and I think after talking about it all year, it finally clicked for us that we cannot have healthy relationships without healthy boundaries. This piece feels so huge. Thank you so much for sharing your story on the podcast, even the hard parts about relational trauma. It doesn't make the show boring or sad; it makes it relatable. We too have been learning how to have healthy friendships and grieving the loss of a therapist. I can't imagine losing two. Thank you for continuing to share with all of us even when things are so hard, sending best wishes of love, happiness and healing for you and your family. Oh my goodness, thank you so much.
Will says: Hey, we have written before but not said anything in a long time. I'm so very happy you survived 2020. [Laughter] So are we. Oh, my goodness, that was a close call you guys. I truly hope things will get easier for you. It has been so hard, but we're holding on to hope. I was wondering if we can maybe share our experiences as a transgender survivor with DID and therapy. Not in a trauma dumping way even though it's been not good for us, but to maybe share a bit about how some things can be very violent when you're trans, that aren't so commonly understood or even especially for people who have worked before with trans people. If we could share about it, what would be the best way? Oh, my goodness, I will absolutely contact you. And we can totally have you on the podcast and talk about this. If that's what you want to do. That would be great. Thank you so much for continuing to share this podcast. We really appreciate you and are sending love and solidarity in the therapy-finding struggle. I hear that. Thank you so much. So excited to talk with you.
Nicole says: I love your podcast. I have been listening to it for about a year. I currently work as a mental health therapist focusing on trauma work with adults. I stumbled upon DID last year with one of my clients and since then have been trying to educate myself and learn more to help my client and be a better therapist. Your podcast is so helpful to me. All of it. The personal episodes, the professional interviews, it's all amazing. Listening to your processing increases my empathy and deepens my understanding of DID and how it impacts relational functioning. I am learning so much and would like to know about opportunities to learn more. ISSTD. I can't say that enough. Look up the ISSTD. Join them, take some classes, watch some webinars, go to the annual conference. It's amazing stuff with amazing people working. You guys, things are changing so fast. Things are updating so fast. It's really really crucial that you are in touch with what is going on and understand these developments. I think it's such a fabulous opportunity. Thanks for everything you are doing. I do not have DID, but I have gone through early traumas that have made relationships hard for me. Your podcast gives me answers to questions I didn't even know I had. I've broken down crying tears of relief after listening to the science behind attachment and trauma, realizing that there is nothing wrong with me. Things happened to me, and now I need to heal myself. I've shared your podcast with other friends of mine who have also gone through difficult things and it gives us hope. Most days I am coping well and on top of it. Having your podcast gives me hope and a very understanding friend for the days when everything is harder and I feel lost and scared. Thank you for your vulnerability and the gifts you are sharing with all of us. Oh my goodness that was so precious. Thank you for writing in Nicole.
Another Michelle says: I'm sure that you get messages like this a lot and I still feel compelled to share my gratitude with you. I was diagnosed with DID in November 2020. I live in a smaller city and was thankful to have come across a therapist who is very talented with hypnosis and IFS who is also very accepting and flexible and patient. What I feel that I've been missing is validation. I couldn't put that into words until I started listening to your podcasts. Hearing that someone else feels and experiences things the way I do, that experts have seen things in other people that I experienced and can relate to, that I'm not just making this all up, that it's okay to be how we are right now. I came across your website just the other day. It has already been life-changing for me and some of the others, impacting our perspectives, connecting us in a different way. I'm in tears as I write this letter of gratitude to you and I can feel similar feelings from others. You are truly impacting lives for the better. Thank you for your efforts and commitment. Oh my goodness, I can't tell you how grateful I am because it's such a scary thing to do, you guys, and we're trying. We're trying. And I think it's something we have built together. And I'm so grateful. Thank you for sharing with us.
Rae says: Hi to all of Systemspeak. Hey, hey, guys. It's been a minute since we wrote you, and I don't recall much of what we said. But I wanted to touch on a few things. Number one, congratulations on the book. Oh, thank you. It's gone out this week. And you guys, we’re so scared because it's actually in the mail on the way to people, and people will read it. And it's terrifying. And now there's like 1000s of copies out there, floating around on the planet. And we don't know what's going to happen next. So it's super, super scary, and we're actually struggling with extra anxiety right now because of that. I've mentioned before that I'm also working on a memoir, and so I was thrilled to hear about yours. I ordered it immediately and really look forward to reading it. I know how terrifying it is to lay yourself open like that and I just wanted to thank you for being courageous enough to do it anyway. It's just another of a zillion ways that you inspire me and give me strength and a sense of belonging in a pretty lonely, scary world. Oh, I'm so glad. Good for you. Writing can be so therapeutic. And spending time in that space was one of the ways I think that we sort of exposed ourselves, not just to the world, but to each other internally. Does that make sense? It was a way to let each other know, maybe, what was going on, and how we've lived, and the pieces that we hold, and to start to really see them even if we're not yet ready to feel them. I think it was a way to experience and share some of those experiences together. So it's been a pretty powerful experience.
Number two, in the episode about Healing Together, you mentioned some sessions dealing with littles and how you feel the most scared of them because of what they know. I relate so much. And this was just on my mind because PBS just had a short documentary in a series called America ReFramed about people living with DID. It's called Busy Inside. And my wife was the one who saw that it would be airing and let me know. I'm always anxious to talk about or share about DID stuff with people, even her, but we watched it together. I was sort of cringing the whole time because all the people they filmed had a lot of littles and they were quite overt. Child voices and behaviors and such like that. And I just felt so uncomfortable watching it. I was trying to figure out why, and I think it's because I only have one little and she isn't usually allowed to speak; she's forbidden by another part. She only comes out under extreme confusion or stress. And the most she’ll ever say is a whispered sentence like “I'm scared” or “I can't talk.” And even being aware of her internally makes me uncomfortable because I feel guilty about how oppressed she is. And I am terrified of knowing what she might know. I think she is forbidden to speak because our system is all terrified of that. Anyway, I have often felt like I don't fit within the DID community because of this. I went to an in-person support group for multiples in my town once. I was so excited. But many of the people there were switching to littles a whole bunch and I just felt out of place and scared. I never went back. So it was reassuring to hear that not everyone is comfortable with their child parts, and that that's okay. I do hope to be more welcoming of mine and I try to give her comfort when I can. Swinging on swing sets helps, hammock helps, rollerskating helps. Sometimes I pick food or toys for her, or we watch movies she likes. But I feel so disconnected from the DID community that I see, or people I see in documentaries or YouTube or in groups that are talking in child voices, drawing or playing in front of other people. It's hard to feel like a minority within a minority. Okay, that's all for today. I just wanted to share those thoughts and thank you again as always for being a lighthouse for me and my system. I have been swimming in denial and eating disorder relapse, which is just the manifestation of denial for me for over a year. And sometimes your podcast is the only thing that helps me remember that there's more of me, and we do deserve love, and we are indeed real. I hope that you are well and that your family as well and everyone is safe. You are my hero. R and everyone else. Oh my goodness. I am so glad you shared this.
Um, I want to be honest that it's a very sensitive topic for us. And I think just everything that's happened over the last two years has changed that for us. But I think it's important to talk about and so I'm going to try. So another tangent on the emails, so I apologize for that. But littles, littles are so important, and so valid, and such a real part of a DID system. There are many traits about littles that are common among systems, or between systems, or with different systems, but also each one is unique. So if you get any of the old books, for example, about DID, they may include a section or a chapter on littles and talk about common traits or things like that. They are often either trauma holders, or really good with the whole phobia and avoidance of trauma or processing it. And so those are like common things. But as far as just sharing about that in a real and vulnerable way, we are very protective of them and agreed in the beginning of the podcast that we would respect those parts that did not want to participate on the podcast. I feel like we have done that as best we could. In the book, some of our littles are more evident because storytelling is a part of who they are. And they were okay with sharing in the story in a way they have never shared on the podcast. I don't know, honestly, if sharing on the podcast is something that would ever happen directly.
Um, but the other piece of that, honestly, is that I think right now they are the most wounded by everything that's happened with losing the therapist. So that's maybe the first time I even said that out loud. But since all of this has happened, they have been, not just like on the banished episode, but missing in a very intentional way. I don't know how to talk about it. They are not being like abused internally or neglected in any way, but we are very, very protective of them, and they are very, very vulnerable right now. And part of what was so hard for us last year is that two of those, at least, if not three of those littles, were part of our system that held on to hope and who were able to navigate some social situations that now, that became far more difficult when we lost access to them. And so it was like we lost our hope, externally, because the safety we thought we had built externally turned out to just be an illusion and not real at all, and the safety and hope that we usually rely on internally was lost when those particular altars—littles, whatever you want to call them—were wounded. And the overwhelming guilt and shame that we participated in any way in allowing that to happen. And I'm not trying to be cryptic, but also I'm not on the podcast to like gossip about their stuff. And so I have to be really careful. But I think where we are right now, this is actually a crucial issue. And so it's very interesting to me in just an energy way, in a union way, that this is the first email that I remember that we've ever gotten about littles, and it's happening right at a time when we were really struggling with that.
So another neutral example would be right as the pandemic was happening and lockdowns were happening, and we were trying to get out of California because we were there for the ISSTD conference. One of the first things that happened was, okay if we're in danger and we're going on lockdown, and like where we live like all the food was gone. It wasn't just toilet paper. Like, there was no food. If you could catch like a pot roast at the grocery store, it was like $45. Like, it was crazy. And so someone of our littles, I can say JohnMark, I guess, because you know him already from the podcast. But he was very concerned for some of our friends and packed up some food in boxes, and sanitizer, and like all the JohnMark-y kinds of things that you wouldn't need in emergency, and mailed them to, like, our people. Or the same people that came to the birthday party, really. And that was not ever really noticed or responded to.
And we used to have, and one of our littles really likes stickers. And for another example that maybe is more neutral, I'm trying really hard to talk about this, like at all. One of our other littles really likes stickers and would use them in our notebooks, and I think lost that expression when we lost the notebooks because we lost the therapist. But where we left off was trying to connect with these new friends, who we had done the work of trying to come out about DID. And so it seemed safe and appropriate and okay to sort of transfer that there, I think is what she tried, and send surprises or pictures or stickers. Which was very vulnerable of her. Terrifying to us. But again, when there was like no response to that, or was not acknowledged, like we have to keep them safe. And if we're doing something wrong, or it's not actually going to nurture a relationship, then it becomes an unsafe experience because there's misattunement, even if the people are safe and good. Right? And so we had to shut that down, which I think added to the wounding, and putting up walls made things more difficult.
And so part of the precarious situation we've been in over the last year absolutely had to do with littles, and have to do with letting them out, and giving them expression in ways we thought at the time were safe, but turned out not to be. And it really for us, unfortunately, pulled the rug out from under us about what is safe and what is not safe. And we really thought that we had an understanding of what was safe, and when was safe, and who was safe. And because of that our therapy had just made exponential progress. Okay? But when that broke down, it was more devastating and more traumatizing than where we had been before we had tried that. I don't know how else to explain it. And so right now littles are a very sensitive topic for us. And I'm not sure I can even talk about it more either safely, for our safety as a system as a whole, or for just practical reasons, being able to continue reading emails without just crying for the next six hours. Like I don't think we can talk about it anymore. But they are sacred, you guys. They are an important part of a DID system. And while we don't personally agree with or are comfortable with putting them on display, so to speak, as sometimes they are so often portrayed. When they authentically want to express themselves, and it's a safe and appropriate way to do so, we absolutely support that. Just like with our outside children. Within boundaries, and and our best at navigating those as they grow up. The same thing with our littles as they make progress in therapy, when there are safe places, or safe people, or safe ways to express themselves a little bit like in the book, for example, then we're okay with that. But we have had so many betrayals, and so much trauma even since growing up. Like, every therapist. Like, more than I can even talk about right now, more than even what's in the book. Like, I just can't. I can't, you guys. And so it is a very sensitive topic for us. And we are very careful about that. And we have very high walls about that right now and are very vulnerable there. Like, that is where our pain is. That is who is hurting. That is who everyone is trying so hard to protect and why it has been so difficult to literally stay alive. I don't, I don't know how else to express that.
But what I want to point out from your email, and to say it focused in the moment of the topic of the podcast. In your email, you talked about tending to those littles. And I think that is what is most important. That when you become aware of littles, that you tend to them, that you care for yourself, that you care for them, that you offer what they need to feel safe and comfortable, and protect them in the ways that is necessary until you can increase that safety and increase that comfort. And do what you need to do in the internal world to keep them safe, to help them know they are loved, to care well for them in the ways that are meaningful. So, as you mentioned, swing sets or hammocks. That's so good, because not only is that comforting to the littles, but it's so good for your brain. It's so good for your brain, because that's a bottom-up. It's a getting to your brain, getting safety to your brain through your body, right? Also singing is something our new therapist has us do a lot, not because we're excellent singers, we're obviously not, but it's not about that. It's about expression and listening at the same time. It's why doing the podcast has been helpful to us. Because we are expressing ourselves, but also hearing it, which by default is both a top-down and a bottom-up at the same time. So like someone should research that. About why it's been exponential in being helpful. Because that's what's going on, right? So like the episode where we sing the song from The Color Purple, this Sweet Baby Sweet, those are moments like singing yourself a lullaby. We have a Spotify playlist of lullabies that we sometimes listen to in our hammock, we have crayons and stickers, and safe things. You know the story if you listen to the podcast at all from the beginning, you know the story of JohnMark and his salsa. And we have crayons for some, and colored pencils for some, and markers for some. We let them contribute to the bullet journal for therapy. Or we used to let them write in the notebooks when that's what we did for therapy. Like there are so many ways to involve them, and to care for them, that are healing for you and for your relationships outside of you as you learn how to do that and learn how to trust that.
But it's also very risky. And I don't mean that to scare you away from trying to do that. But to be aware that they are little, and sharing them with anyone is a really big deal. And giving anyone access to them is a really big deal. Because those are the deepest and furthest back and most ancient pieces of you. And that is sacred territory and for us right now that is just entirely off limits. I don't think I can even talk about it more right now. But I love that you are trying to learn them, trying to get in touch with them, trying to care for them. Those are beautiful, beautiful things. And I, this is maybe something a topic that we need to come back to in another episode at another time when we are more able to do that. But thank you for bringing it up.
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Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.