Transcript: Episode 115
115. Family Trauma
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Okay, this morning was crazy, and I mean crazy in every sense of the word as far as the chaos and farce that our family is, [laughs] and trying to piece together what is going on when there’s so much trauma in one house. Uh. Okay, so here’s what happened. Here’s the Reader's Digest version.
One of our children has some allergy issues and it’s allergy season. There’s been lots of rain and humidity, and so we just needed to give him some eye drops. And he knew he needed the eyedrops and he’s had the eyedrops before, like a hundred times. It’s no big deal, right? Except for whatever reason, we don’t even know what went wrong, but whatever reason this time, the eyedrops totally triggered him into full flashback mode. And he started punching and kicking and we were all dressed up for church, and so he had his big, old hard church shoes on. And we got the crap beat out of us by our [laughs] kid. Oh my goodness. We’re so sore. The body hurts so bad right now. You want to get in touch with your body? Get beat up by a ten year old and you’ll get in touch with your body real fast. [Laughs]
Uh! But please understand…please understand, we are not dissing our child. The issue was not a behavioral issue. It was totally a memory thing, and we get that, but it was pretty bad. And so we were out of -- trying to get out of his way and trying to get the kids -- the other kids out of the way, and this comes like two weeks after a similar thing happened with our daughter, who had an Africa flashback, and just started throwing everything out of her room, and everything else. And so -- oh my goodness -- so now, in like the span of two weeks, the children have seen -- the other children have seen one of the kids just completely flip their lid. Part of that is, like, 5th grade - happy adolescents. This is going to be a fun ten years.
But, [laughs] -- but part of it is just trauma stuff, and they are working really hard in their own therapies and counseling right now. So, it makes sense that things are getting triggered and that everyone is a little bit extra stirred up. But then one of our other boys, who has autism also, got overstimulated by the whole thing, that he started screaming, and throwing a fit on the floor. He was kicking and hitting the floor and not us. Thank goodness. But oh my goodness, it was a lot.
And so then, because he was doing that and the other child was crying and rocking and sobbing on the floor, another child, who just does not always think so clearly, but was trying their best, said out loud, “I’m going to call the police, because we’re not safe.” Only no one was actually getting hurt. We had one boy who was in a flashback on the floor, another boy was having an autism meltdown. And two weeks ago, one of our daughters…a similar thing. So, it wasn’t actually that any children were getting hurt, and it wasn’t even that anyone was in crisis. It was that one was just neurologically overstimulated, and the other one was in a trauma moment. Right?
And so when she said that she’s going to call the police, because we weren’t safe, then all of the kids freaked out, because to them, that’s like a DHS moment. It flashes back when they came into foster care. And so then we had all six kids [laughs] -- oh my goodness -- so then all six kids were screaming and crying and falling apart, like literally falling to the floor. And it was so dramatic, and it was so awful, and I can’t even tell you how difficult this was. And so the whole morning just came to a screeching halt while we tried to reestablish safety and tried to console all the children and tried to ground the one and got the autism headphones for the other and reassure the daughter she doesn’t need to call the police, because she actually is safe, and now time is safe, and reviewing all of these things.
But, oh my goodness, this was one of the moments where parenting is hard, period. Parenting foster children or children who have been adopted from foster care, also hard. Parenting children who are adopted with trauma, also hard. Parenting six children, also hard. [Laughs] Parenting triplets and twins, also hard. [Laughs] Oh my goodness. My life. Uh, this is my life.
Anyway, so I’m explaining this -- I’m explaining this because on the way home from church -- like, later -- so like way, hours later -- The Husband starts, just all of the sudden broadcasting to the whole van about trauma and what is trauma, and just starts having the conversation with the kids. So, I’m like, “Stop! I have to record this. It’s so good.” [Laughs] Not to exploit what the children had been through, but to show an example of how do you talk about this as a family when there is lots of trauma in one family, because we get a lot of questions about that, and that’s a very real thing. When people have real trauma and not just the person yourself, like the survivor, but also if you’re married to someone, or have a spouse or partner, and if you also have children, and especially if your children also have trauma -- like how do you talk about this and have conversations about it?
And so I actually, with his permission and the kids permission, started recording this conversation that we were having, and sort of this lesson that he was giving -- so, there’s a few times that he stops one of them from talking, and that is the one with autism, and he has -- how do you say it? Perservation? And so he has to stop him, because he won’t stop. But I promise he did get a chance to talk and to get a chance to process in private. But do you hear him stop him during the conversation, because otherwise he would have just completely high-jacked it, and kicked the ball away, and we would not have been able to finish the thing.
So, during group time, we do have to cut that one off, because he’s not able to regulate it at all. But, I promise in private, he is able to get all the time that he wants to talk, and we address that individually with him. So, anyway, so you’re going to hear that. There’s lots of background noise, because we were literally in the van driving home from church and it happened entirely spontaneously. And then what we did after that was once we got home, and everyone was settled and in a better place, we actually showed them the movie Miracle Worker, about Helen Keller and Anne Sullivan. Because it has those scenes where they’re wrestling down over folded napkins and using your spoon. I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but Helen Keller, of course, was deaf and blind, and her teacher Anne Sullivan came in. No one had given her any rules or boundaries or taught her anything, because they didn’t think she was capable of it. But the process of learning was messy and difficult, but we used that just to show -- not that that’s ideal, and we don’t wrestle our kids down to the ground over napkins -- but to show how messy it looks on the outside, and how Helen Keller was not actually trying to hurt Anne Sullivan. She just didn’t know how to use her words, and Anne Sullivan, the teacher, was not actually trying to hurt Helen Keller. She was just trying to teach her what no one else had believed in her, that she could do.
So, the process was sort of messy, but that’s different than them actually being in danger. And so we watched Miracle Worker to sort of talk about how when people don’t know how to use their words, or when someone has trauma, and there’s a flashback or something that is really big -- they have big emotions and big feelings, and it’s a hard thing and scary thing to see if you don’t understand what’s going on. But that’s why we want to understand trauma as a family, and triggers, and how it impacts other people, because for all of our children, any kind of raised voices or any kind of conflict at all triggers all of them, because they’re all from domestic violence backgrounds, before they came to us. Right?
So, it was just a start in how to have a conversation -- not that we did it perfectly -- but it was just such an example of how do you talk about these things in a real way, even just starting to have conversations? And then we did, throughout the day, after we watched the movie, we followed up with each of the children individually, while the others played Legos. So, we sent the others to play Legos in the den, and then we had private conversations with each of them -- just going down the line -- to make sure that everyone felt better and had been able to process what was going on. And then we’ll go back to counseling tomorrow, and we’ll talk about it with the therapist, so she can follow up with them as well.
So, I know you’re only getting a glimpse of part of what happened. But, what he was sharing with them and some of the questions they asked was really good and worth sharing, I thought. So, we went ahead and recorded it. So, it picks up right in the middle of things, and I’m sorry I didn’t get the beginning, but I didn’t even realize that that’s what was happening, because it was not at all planned. So, I hope that helps and makes some sense, and you understand why I’m sharing it in an appropriate way. The private conversations after at the end of the day, I don’t include, because it’s not really -- I mean, we don’t need to share their business. But, the family conversation, I think, was appropriate and broad enough, mostly, to use as an example and share on the podcast.
The Husband does share, several times, the stories from one of our children, and that’s because he’s the one that has -- he uses that example, because what happened with him this morning was in front of everyone. So, it was already public information. And so I want to clarify that, because we’re not just picking on the one child. He uses that example because when the conversation started in the car, the part that was not recorded, the kids were asking about that and following up on that to make sure that he was okay - that particular child. And that particular child loves to talk, loves to use his story as an example, and wants to process a lot verbally. And so that’s why he keeps using him as an example, and his story as an example. I want to clarify that so you know we’re not just picking on that particular child, or shaming him, or anything like that. And he absolutely, as much as the others, got more time to talk privately, once we got home, and after we watched Miracle Worker, and were able to put things back in context for him.
So, everything’s okay today, and everything’s much better. We’re actually getting ready to go on a hike, for the holiday. We don’t have to work today, and we don’t have therapy today, because it’s a holiday in America, and so we’re going to go do some mega-outside playtime, by going on a hike. And that will help sort of physically follow up on everything that went down yesterday, because all of those chemicals in your body, after a big stress like that, or a big incident, or a big experience like that, really builds up the cortisol and the other hormones or chemicals in your brain and in your body. So, we’re going to go flush them out through physical activity, and take the kids on a hike, and spend some time outside. And I think it will be really grounding for everybody, but we’re doing much better today, and it was a really good conversation, so I just wanted to share the part of it.
I hope that makes sense, and gives you a context enough to understand what happened and why we were talking about this, and how it became a conversation, and why this part of it is okay to share. Does that make sense? So, hang with me. Here we go.
The Husband: Trauma is spelt t-r-a-u-m-a. Okay? So, trauma is something that happens to you that’s a really hard, bad experience, and it’s bad enough that it kind of gets struck in your brain. Okay? So, for example, there’s some things that happened to Mama -- are you recording me?
You’re so funny. There’s some things that happened to Mama and Mary in Africa that were probably trauma, where their lives were in danger. They were not safe. They did not have what they needed. Right?
Children: Right. Right.
The Husband: My life has not been as exciting as Mama’s life, but I still have experiences that have been trauma for me. I have experiences of when I was bullied by kids at school, that were that kind of experience. Not every bad experience is trauma. And what I learned is the best way to know if something is a trauma is when you think about it, or talk about it, you feel as if you’re right back there again. Okay?
A traumatic event -- when you sort of stick your finger in that memory -- suddenly all of the feelings come back as if you’re right there, as if you’re still there. Does that make sense?
Children in unison: Yeah.
The Husband: So, for example, Barrett, this morning, got really scared when Mama and I got frustrated and angry, not because he was in danger, but because when he was little and his parents got scared, he was in danger. That was a traumatic experience. It was an experience of trauma. Okay?
So, all of us have different kinds of trauma we will experience in our lives, and part of living a good and healthy life is learning how to deal with that trauma - being aware that it’s there, knowing that something will trigger it. Alex has talked about triggers lately, which is really smart. So, angry parents is a trigger for Barrett, and it becomes much, much harder to regulate and stay calm when our trauma has been triggered. Yeah?
Children in unison: Yeah.
Child: Like in Back to the Future.
The Husband: Yeah, when someone calls him a coward in Back to the Future, it made it much harder for him to stay calm. Right?
Child: Yeah.
The Husband: I don’t know what kind of trauma Marty McFly experienced in his past, but it seems to come out in that word. So, all of us need to be sensitive to trauma in ourselves and trauma in each other. For example -- I keep using BarreTt, not because this is anything bad Barrett’s doing, but Barrett has some clear examples that all of us have seen. Barrett, when he was little, also had food trauma that he did not get the food that he needed. So now, Barrett, when you feel like you’re not going to get food, how do you feel?
Barrett: Very not safe.
The Husband: Very not safe. Right? Even if it’s just missing a snack, and you’ll just get dinner after that, it’s really scary. Isn’t it? It’s because food is the trigger for your trauma. Does that make sense?
Child: Yeah.
The Husband: Each of you has had really hard things happen when you were little, maybe even things you don’t even remember now, but they’re still saved in your brain. Your brain makes a recording, basically, of everything that happens to you in your life.
Child: So, like we’re --
The Husband: Every choice you make, everything that happens to you, is saved in your brain
SystemSpeak: Even before you came to live with us.
The Husband: Even before you came to live with us, it is all there.
Child: It’s like we’re like a walking camera, kind of like.
The Husband: Yeah, it’s like you’re a little bit like a walking camera. In fact, they have done experiments where they can poke at someone's brain and suddenly they will smell things or hear things that aren’t there. They’re memories. It’s all stored in your brain.
Child: It’s like we’re a little library, but with [inaudible].
The Husband: You’re doing good on coming up with metaphors there, Kirk.
So, because we have such big traumas -- I’m sorry Barrett, I know you’re trying to talk, but I want to get through this.
We have such big traumas in our family that we are trying and needing to learn how to be sensitive with each other's trauma. And part of why that is hard is sometimes one person's response to trauma is the other person's trigger. So, [laughs] using Barrett as an example again. I love you, Barrett.
When Barrett gets upset about something that to me seems like a small thing, and gets really mad about it, his tantrum can become my trigger, and then I get upset…not just because Barrett’s upset, but because of things that have happened in my past. So then what looks like Barrett and I having an argument is really Barrett being scared by his biological parents not taking care of him, and me being mad about something that happened when I was a kid? Right? It’s almost not even about what’s happening in the moment.
Child: And if you seem angry, then [inaudible].
The Husband: It’s true. It’s not fun when you get angry. So, all of us, all you can do is control your own choices, right, and even sometimes that’s hard. But all of us need to be aware that some things trigger us, that some things will bring up those traumas and we need to use our words to let people know that something is a trigger, or if we’re feeling upset and scared and unsafe, knowing that it is okay to use those words now. Right?
Child: Right.
The Husband: But also, if you see someone else reacting to something in a way that does not match what is actually going on… being aware that maybe they are having a trauma that is being triggered. Right? And so sometimes we just need to be patient and wait it out. Sometimes what they need is comfort to know that they are not in danger right now.
When I was in fourth grade, I was really struggling in my classes.
[Blinker]
And I had a teacher, who I’m told was a very nice teacher, but something I did was a trigger for her. And she took me up to the front of my class and told everyone in the class to take a good look at me, and not be like me. And then she took me to the other classes in fourth grade, and told all of the other kids the same thing. And it was a terrible, humiliating experience for me. That experience was a trauma, and so many, many times in my life, I have felt whenever I feel like I have failed at something, or that people don’t like something I’ve done, it brings up that same trigger. And I feel like a poor, helpless kid being dragged around by a parent and being shamed in front of everybody.
I don’t think that’s what she was like most of the time. She was having a hard time in her life too - I happen to know that. And so I triggered her, and she did something that was not appropriate. And now I have this memory, and when it comes back, it can feel like I’m still there. That’s an example of a trauma.
So now in my life, I have worked hard to forgive her, and recognize that she was struggling with something too. I have also worked hard to find peace in myself to give peace to that me that’s in my memory. Okay?
So all of you, as you grow older, and you have those things that start coming up, you’ll probably need help. You’ll probably need to go to a counselor or a therapist -- a feelings doctor of some kind -- to help you work through those experiences.
Alex: Um…
The Husband: Yes, Alex.
Alex: You didn’t do something really bad, did you?
The Husband: No, I don’t think I did. I think I just didn’t get an assignment done.
Alex: Well, the assignments not that bad. You can just take it home and finish it and then bring it back the next day.
The Husband: Well, that’s what I’m saying, Alex. Her reaction did not match the circumstance, which is why I think that I had triggered some sort of trauma -- that she wasn’t just responding to me, she was responding to all the hard things that were going on in her life.
Another example to help you to understand that -- this is not specifically trauma, but if I am trying to read, for example, and Alex comes and says, “What time is dinner going to be?” And I say, “We’ll talk about it later.” And then Mary comes in and says, “What time is dinner going to be?” And I say, “We’ll talk about it later.” And Amber comes and says, “What time is dinner going to be?” And I say, “We’ll talk about it later.” And then Barrett comes and says, “What time is dinner going to be?” And I’ll say, “Stop asking!” Except, how many times has Barrett asked?
Child: One.
The Husband: One time. Right? So, when I lose my temper in that situation, it’s not actually because of Barrett. It’s because there’s a whole series of things that has happened, and poor, poor Barrett, who I dearly love [laughs], got stuck in that example again, bearing the brunt of my other experiences. Right?
So, just remember that when we’re going through our lives, and you find that you, yourself, are having a reaction that’s much bigger than what’s going on, or if you see that in someone else, please remember that trauma -- when your mind and memories pop back into that dangerous moment -- it feels like you’re in a bad, not safe situation, even when reality is okay, even when now time is safe. Does that make sense, guys?
Children in unison: Yes.
The Husband: So, that’s something we’re going to have to work on. Even just like this morning, with -- I’m going to use Alex as an example. I’m sorry, Alex. I know you’re still feeling sensitive about it. But, Alex’s reaction to getting eye drops was much bigger than the actual situation. Right? Alex, haven’t you had those eye drops before?
Alex: I don’t think so.
The Husband: You don’t think so?
System Speak: Yes, yes, after swimming.
The Husband: Yeah. So, it was a trigger, and what you were responding to was memories of pain in the past, and you were so scared, and you acted in ways that you would not act under ordinary circumstances. Isn’t that right?
Yeah.
System Speak: Do you know when you first had eye drops that hurt you? When you were in the hospital, when your biological mother broke your skull.
Alex: Yes.
System Speak: And that really was not safe. And your life really was in danger.
The Husband: And it was scary and terrifying. And as a baby, all you can do is wave your hands and feet and try to stop it. Right? Now you’re ten and waving your hands and feet turns into hitting and kicking.
System Speak: So, it’s a careful thing, because having your skull broken and having medicines and needles and surgery on your head -- that is a hard thing, and it is a scary thing, and it is a life endangering thing. You were not safe then. And everything that even your body remembers, that you don’t remember, is okay, because in that context, you should have felt those things.
The Husband: Yeah.
System Speak: It makes sense that you felt those things. You’re not bad for feeling those things, and you’re not in trouble for feeling those things.
The Husband: So --
System Speak: But --
The Husband: Absolutely. You are not bad for feeling those things.
System Speak: But part of what we practice is remembering why we feel those things, because having allergies and needing some drops in your eyes so that your eyes feel better is not the same as having your skull broken when you were a baby. But your brain takes what happened then and what happens now, and mixes those memories together, so that it feels like that’s what’s happening right now. And that’s why we say now time is safe, because memory time was not safe. Does that make sense, baby?
Alex: Yes.
The Husband: So, you are not bad for having that experience this morning. It means you have some trauma in your past that you’re going to have to work on figuring out how to deal with when those moments come. And we are going to have to work on figuring out how to help you in those moments. But it’s true for all of us. It’s true for Mama and me. We have trauma that gets triggered and we are working on that. That’s part of why Mama goes to see her therapist in Tulsa, and I go to see the one here. We are working with people to help us through those things, so that we can regulate, even when things are hard. Yeah?
System Speak: And we’re learning together, right?
The Husband: Right.
System Speak: So, one thing we talked about -- Papa, one thing we talked about while you were out was that just like the 5th graders are learning to be adolescence and the preschoolers are now second graders and learning how to be big kids, you and I are also learning how to parent differently.
The Husband: Yes.
System Speak: Because we don’t parent them the same now as when they were little.
The Husband: Absolutely true.
System Speak: And we don’t have to parent the same now that we’ve been a family for so long, than when they first came into foster care. And so there’s a lot that we have now, that we did not have then. We’re attached to each other. We have -- we know that now time is safe. We have relationships between us, and we can use those as part of helping each other, rather than everything is a behavior and it has to stop.
The Husband: Yeah. An example of changing parenting -- Barrett, this is an example with you again, but it’s an example about me -- Kyrie, right now, is the age you were when you came to live with us. Did you know that?
But, I didn’t know how to be a dad to a four year old when you came. It was still really new. I had had Alex and Amber when they were four, but I didn’t know how to be a good dad to a four year old with him either. I was still figuring it out.
Child: Wait, I was four when I came?
The Husband: No, but you were four when you lived with us.
Child: Oh.
The Husband: But, there’s so many times -- and Mama can tell you that I talk about this -- that it breaks my heart that I didn’t know that you needed more snuggles, that I didn’t understand that I should be taking much more time with you one on one, but there’s nothing I can do to go back and change that now, except to do my best to be a better dad to you now.
System Speak: Well, and some of it is just about what we are able to do.
The Husband: Yeah.
System Speak: When you first came, we were in the hospital with Kyrie.
The Husband: And Mama had cancer and all kinds of things.
System Speak: Like, so much was happening, and all of that was trauma for us as a family. All of that was trauma for us as a family. And so even though it was not our fault that we were gone, because we were with Kyrie, which was the right thing to do, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t hard for you when that was happening.
The Husband: Yeah.
System Speak: And even though we were doing our best, that doesn't mean that you didn’t still have needs, even though we were giving our best. And what you need and what you feel and what you experience is absolutely okay.
The Husband: Yeah.
System Speak: And we heal from that together, and we come back and we talk about it, and we learn from it, and we do better. Right?
[Sniffles]
Child: Yes.
The Husband: Do you guys know that we love you?
Children in unison: Yes.
The Husband: Do you know, for real, that you are safe?
Children in unison: Yes.
The Husband: It’s true. We love you and you are loved and you are safe. You are loved and you are safe. Okay?
System Speak: So, just one more piece. We are going to watch The Miracle Worker today. I think that was a good idea, because what you can see in The Miracle Worker is how they both were doing their best.
Child: Stop.
System Speak: When Helen Keller was struggling and fighting, it was because she didn’t know, and because she was trying to meet her needs, and because she had big feelings. And when Anne Sullivan, her teacher, was working with her, she was doing her best to teach her with what she knew how to do, and with what she was able to do with her own disabilities and limitations and challenges, and with the resources that she had and didn’t have. But did dishes still get broken?
Children in unison: Yes.
System Speak: Did they still wrestle to the ground?
Children in unison: Yes.
System Speak: Did they still get hurt, both of them?
Children in unison: Yes.
System Speak: And I’m not saying it has to be like that all the time. We don’t want it to be like that. But what I am saying is that even in that situation, that is different than someone who’s trying to hurt you. That is different than when you’re actually in danger. Trying to help you calm down and trying to help you be safe and trying to get you the things that you need is different than trying to hurt you.
When Mary got upset a couple weeks ago and was throwing things, she was throwing away everything, because she felt that she was not good and deserved nothing. I know she was not trying to throw things at me to hurt me. Did I get hurt?
Everyone in unison: Yes.
System Speak: Did things get broken? Yeah, but that’s different than Mary trying to do that. She was not trying to hurt me. She was trying to get rid of everything, because she felt like nothing.
The Husband: And because of trauma, it was really Mary from a long time ago. Right? It was Mary now, feeling like she was Mary from a long time ago, and acting out that anger and fear and frustration that she had had.
System Speak: Does that make sense?
Child: Yes.
System Speak: And this morning, did I get hurt?
The Husband: Yes.
System Speak: Did Alex get scared?
The Husband: Yes.
Child: Yes.
Child: No.
System Speak: But no one was trying to hurt Alex, and I know that Alex was not trying to hurt me. So, you can remember, too, in those situations, like in The Miracle Worker, that even though it looks the same as when you were little, it’s not the same thing that’s happening. When you guys were little, you saw people fighting and trying to hurt each other, and you were actually in danger. In The Miracle Worker, she’s acting out, not because she’s mean, but because she doesn’t know. She can’t see and she can’t hear and she hasn’t learned. And her teacher is trying to help her when she’s in a state of not being able to use words.
So, when Mary or Barrett or Alex -- they’re not able to use words, it takes a different kind of helping, to help them remember that they are safe and to have the things that they need. But that’s not the same as anyone trying to hurt them. And it’s not the same as not being loved. And all of you were taken from your families after those kinds of situations.
The Husband: That’s another trauma.
System Speak: So, that’s a whole other trauma that feels like when they’re fighting, I’m going to lose my family forever, because that’s what happened to you before. But we are a family, and we can learn together and heal together and stay together.
Yeah?
Child: Yeah.
System Speak: Anything else, Papa?
The Husband: Just I love you guys.
Child: We love you.
Child: We love you too.
System Speak: I love you too.
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