Transcript: Episode 54
54. Hardball with Julie
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
***Interview Begins***
Interviewer: Bold Font
Interviewee: Standard Font
Yay. [Laughing] I’ve got nothing left. I’m so wiped right now.
Oh, yeah. It’s therapy day. Therapy takes all of the energy. It’s like a big vacuum. It just sucks it.
It was so terrible. It was a disaster.
Why? Why was it a disaster?
I don’t know, because I wasn’t there. [Laughing] No, I think -- I mean, it’s not the therapist. The therapist is amazing. I think that just being away is really hard for us, and so we had the week off for spring break, but then there was two weeks before that where we intentionally kept it very chill before therapy -- I mean, before spring break, so that we wouldn’t panic about spring break, and I think we just worked too hard at that. And it was really hard to get back into it, and it was just uh… I don’t know.
But that’s okay.
Whatever is happening, I have never felt before, and I don’t like it, and it’s uncomfortable and icky and I don’t know even the words for it. Like I don’t even know how to describe it, but I was glad that I could talk to you, because it was just ugh. …
So what can I do to help you?
Oh, nothing. We can chat.
Okay, so you got my box.
Oh yeah! I got the box.
[Cross talk - inaudible]
[Laughing]
I also --
I keep saying, “you got my box” and then I think about it after I said it and I’m like, “That does not sound right.” [Laughing]
You’re so funny. I also got a box from Donna.
Yes.
We have so much to talk about. We need to podcast about the last three weeks, because it’s been nuts.
I’m down. Whenever you need me. I have to do a softball game tonight and a practice tomorrow, but other than that, I’m good.
How is your arm?
Oh, I’m killing it, dude. Did you see my arm? That thing looks heinous. I was getting such ugly looks at the [inaudible] Park.
Oh my goodness. So you just took a linedrive to the arm?
Yes I did, and it was my fault, and I’m stupid. And next time, I’m won’t be that stupid. I had an ignorant moment. I wasn’t planning to coach this season. I was going to be one of the parents that just sat on the sidelines and was snarky from my chair.
Right.
But then they asked me to coach, because I’ve coached for probably, I don’t know, nine seasons, eight seasons.
Okay, softball can be pretty awesome. But here’s the thing about softball, there’s one thing you have to remember, even as a coach. I know you know a lot about softball, but there’s one more thing that I can teach you that you don’t know.
Okay, you teach me honey.
It is that when you are playing softball, you cannot dissociate.
Yeah.
[Laughing]
Tell me about it. [Laughing]
That is a nasty -- it’s like the size of a soccer ball - your bruise on your arm.
I know. It’s huge. It takes up most of my arm, and I’m not a little woman. I am fluffy, and I am okay with it. Softball season is my weightloss program.
[Laughing]
So, [laughing] listen, I don’t dissociate on the field. It’s when I am on the sidelines and I’m having to hear parents make their snarky comments that I would make if I was in their seat. That makes me dissociate, because then I start to panic about how am I going to shut them down? Does that make sense?
Oh my goodness.
And so I’ve been coaching for years and years, okay? And I’ve had instances where I’ve had to kick parents off the field, or coaches, like coaches that were supposed to be helping me. I’ve had to kick them off the field.
Oh my goodness.
Because they couldn’t act appropriately. And when I am the coach, those are my adopted children, okay? So if I can come and be fully functional and not be intoxicated then so can you, okay? It’s 5 o’clock somewhere, but it’s not on my field.
Right.
So, I’ve had to do that. I had to kick off a coach for calling an opposing coach ugly superlatives, and that’s not okay.
Wow.
Yeah, uh huh. I was livid. I had him kicked off the whole program for that, okay? And then I’ve had parents who think they’re children are the Michael Jordan to softball, and don’t like the line up, or whatever. Excuse me, FYI, I’ve put children in places that they can play. I don’t play favorites, and I’m not going to put a child in a position where they’re not safe. Sorry. Try again.
Right.
And you want your kid to be the MVP? Well then you take them to extra practices or have them do it at home - practice at home. But you know, we’re not playing Russian Roulette on my field. Nobody’s dying on my time. So …
Oh my goodness.
[Laughing] So, it’s just various things like that cattiness, I don’t do really well with that. That sends me into panic attacks. So, I’m working through that and I’ve gotten better, but sometimes, sometimes Julie goes on autopilot and the hammer comes out, and hammer will handle business, and Julie will just sit back and watch it, but not be able to do anything about it. [Laughing]
Wow. I’m so scattered. I’m sorry. I’m not fully present. You know what I think is happening? Is it’s like because we’re getting better at talking with each other some, which I guess is kind of part of the point --
Right.
… I feel like I had already planned to talk to you today, and so I’m trying to get out after therapy, but I’m really having trouble getting all the way out, if that makes sense. I don’t know how else to explain it.
Like you still feel somebody is too close?
Well, I am aware that I’m fronting, but I feel like 100 miles away still. And I can’t get all the way forward. But also, there’s this big emotional response going on, and I don’t have any idea what it’s attached to, and so I’m feeling all these layers that I don’t even know where to put them or how to clean it up. And …
So then, let’s take a second to ground, because if we ground, then maybe that will put you more present.
Are you --
So what are five things you can see?
You keep telling me that you’re not a therapist.
I know, but I’m just saying this might help us. So we might as well utilize it, because I mean, if we’re going to pay to find this stuff out, we might as well utilize the services. [Laughing]
[Laughing] Okay, that’s funny. Maybe we should do what we’ve been taught. Okay, I’m looking for a peppermint. Hold on. [Unwrapping a peppermint]
Okay, yeah. Get a peppermint. Bring some oils.
Okay, I have a peppermint. We have a whole list of things to talk about. What do we need to talk about? That will help me focus. I’ve got a peppermint.
Okay.
Let’s talk about movie guy.
Ooh, movie guy? Okay.
So, we did interview these people for the movie.
Let me just tell you, I listened to that thing twice, okay? The third one, because the first two were very respectful and I enjoyed the supporting actor, who was asking questions.
He was amazing.
Right. That was really good. The director was really good. Okay, but let me just tell you.
[Laughing]
The star of the movie per se, if you will, okay? Look, after I listened to it the first time, first of all, I was kind of appalled, okay? Because I took notes the second time to find out exactly what appalled means. So let me pull those up really quick.
Oh my goodness.
Well, I was ticked. And I was like I need to find out exactly where I was ticked. Okay, first of all, I just want to point out to dude man, that my friends’ trauma experiences cannot be related to his dog, okay? There’s that.
That was crazy. So we interviewed the director and the writer and that part was very easy. He was very pleasant. He was very supportive. He wasn’t super intrusive, because he had kind of already done his project.
Right.
But we could do it. We watched part of the movie. I don’t know if any of us finished it, because it’s super dark and super triggering, and also, just stylistically, it’s a very “man movie.” Like it’s about a male character, which is kind of cool, because there’s not a lot of DID movies anyway, much less with a guy, because they’re always girls. So, I get that that’s an important thing that sometimes men are victimized as well. So, I get that. But, also, just the approach was very manly. It was a very male movie.
Well, and also, I think one of you, I don’t know if it was you, so forgive me if I don’t know, but I assume that you’re the only one that really talks to me, except for an occasional, “Howdy do” from JohnMark?
[Laughing]
But the dude was like -- when he started into his thing about comparing talking to his dogs to DID because of how he talks to them in his broken english, and his tone changes, I was like, “Really, dude? Have you lost your subset of human interaction and connection?” It actually creeped me out. It reminded me of my creepy neighbor.
Oh, wow. So that was triggering for you?
I was like, “Dude.” Well, let me tell you why, because my creepy neighbor, okay, just got out of jail for taking indecent liberties with a minor, okay?
Wow. Wow. Wow.
And I watched the whole thing go down. Okay? I watched him get trucked out by the SWAT team and everything. Okay? And I was like, “Surely his wife will divorce him.” Okay? And of course, she wasn’t that intelligent, and a lot of that has to do with, they call it -- I’ve been told it’s comparable to battered wife syndrome.
Right.
Where they stay --
So it’s not really about intelligence. She’s struggling.
It’s like a comfort thing, right? That’s her comfort, because she knows what to expect, I guess, is what it is. And I get it on the intelligence standpoint, but the fighter in me, if you will, or the --
You totally have a lot of fight in you that not necessarily everyone else has.
Right. Like the “screw you” part of me would have been like, “Bye, dude.” The locks would have already been changed. The divorce attorney would have been called. I would have speed-pushed my divorce through on the grounds of him being a “douche canoe.” [Laughing] I would have never seen him again, like totally gone, taken him to the bank, sold his car, pawned his clothes, whatever. Right? That would have been what Julie would have done.
That’s a little bit aggressive, Julie. You maybe need to lay off the softball.
Oh, right. Maybe I need to play more softball and get that aggression out. But so, he’s come home. So, when he was here -- and he’s very into his dogs. Right? They dress them. It’s creepy in to your dogs. I’m an animal lover. I have a dog. I have four cats. Right? But I’m not sitting there dressing my dog up. I don’t talk to him in freaky voices. I don’t treat him like he’s one of the children. Sure, he does some cute things like when I’m making my coffee, bark at me for a bone, because he knows they’re in the cupboard next to the coffee. But … [Laughing]
[Laughing]
But outside of that, we’re not doing weekly baths. We do once a month bath, because we’re not trying to ruin our skin. You know? We do normal things. He doesn’t come out. I don’t take him in the car on rides. We go for walks, and he wears a leash, and we go to a designated area, and he knows where he needs to, you know, do his dog stuff, and he knows that that’s his area and that’s where he does it. He’s a well-behaved, mannersome, you know, individual.
Oh, back in the day, before kids, I totally took my dog with me everywhere in the car.
And well, and I have had a dog and had dogs that I did that with, but I just don’t do that with this one, because he’s afraid of the car. So, I acknowledge his traumatic experience, whatever that was, which wasn’t with me, and I just know that that’s upsetting for him and we don’t do it. Plus I don’t do vomit. So, if he’s going to get sick, we’re not doing it.
[Laughing] That’s funny. Well, this guy, I mean, he was comparing them to Alters. And I understand he was grasping to understand --
Mmhm.
Some perspective, but he was eating the whole time we interviewed him.
Yes! I mean, he was smacking his lips and everything, and I’m like, “What is he doing? Is he chowing down on an orange or something?” I almost was like, “What are you eating, dude?”
That episode was the hardest episode to edit, out of all of the episodes that we’ve ever done so far.
Yes.
We edited out so much and he talked over me so often that it was actually really hard to preserve very much of the interview at all, because every time I would say something, he would talk over me. Or if I started to disclose or share something, he would talk over me, and it was really, really difficult. It was really difficult to edit that episode.
Well, and the whole time I was listening to that, I was like, “He is manspreading.” John Mark would be having a fit. [Laughing]
He was totally mansplaining.
Yeah, having not had the challenge or the disorder in his life other than when he was paid for it, and then when he was like, “Well, I got through this by doing a long spa day and I stopped listening to music.” Um, okay creepy guy.
Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s so easy just to get out of. But here’s the thing too though, he was only acting, it wasn’t like this was his life. So maybe that’s just a reminder of how simple it is when it’s not real to just get over it, because I can’t even get over therapy that someone else just went to. [Laughing]
Well, but that’s because you all have a very direct connection. But he was like in order to engage the public, you have to scare the sugar, honey iced tea out of them and put some commercialism in the DID diagnosis. And I’m like, “You know what? I get that M. Night Shyamalan had to do his Glass movie and whatever” -- which by the way, I did not support, because I’m not going to support stupid, in my opinion, and I’m entitled to that.
Right. [Crosstalk] We did not even go see it to review it for the podcast. We’re like, “We are not giving them a dime. I’m not buying a ticket, even just to review.” Everyone else was like, “I’m going to be the first to review it on YouTube.” And I was like, “I’m not touching it.”
Right. I am not supporting stupid. [Laughing]
Speaking of making people laugh, that was in my hate mail. I got my first hate mail, and it said -- well, it’s two things, and first of all, it presented it as a “No one else is going to tell you this, so I just want to be honest and tell you, because I care.” And the first thing it said was my laugh, your laugh is so bad, meaning specifically Sasha. That my laugh is so bad that it’s like a screech owl, or something. And I was like, “I’m really sorry about that. But also there’s nothing I can do. So…”
I wouldn’t have even paid that any mind, because quite frankly, I find your life, and I’m not just saying that because I’m your friend, but I find your laugh quite jovial, and happiness bringing. So… .
[Laughing]
Screw him.
Well, there’s nothing I could do about it, and I was like, “Dude, if you don’t like my laugh, that’s cool. I don’t care, but just don’t --”
There is a button that lets you fast forward, douche canoe. Please feel free to hit it.
Yeah. Or just don’t listen to the Sasha episodes. If I’m such a pain, just skip the ones that I’m in. That’s totally fine. So… .
Well, that’s fine if he wants to do that, but he’s going to be missing the joy of the podcast, so that’s on him.
Yeah. Just listen to the boring ones.
[Laughing] Okay, if he wants to sleep, fine. That’s fine. You travel on to “Nerdville”, okay?
[Laughing]
Here in “Cool Town” [laughing] -- here in “Cool Town” we’re going to continue to be funny and have a good time and not take life so seriously, because we have enough serious in our life that we don’t have to. But, thank you. Please leave a message. Beep. [Laughing]
That’s funny. So, I was looking up because I remember that there were a few things that they said, and I wanted to look up the other ones. So, besides that fact that I laugh like Jiminy Cricket, which is a quote. [Laughing]
Well, you know what? You can Jiminy Cricket at my house any time. Go ahead.
Well, thank you. The other thing was that they hated, like capitol H, HATED, the maladaptive episode. And so --
I thought it was hysterical. So, that’s his issue, not mine.
Well, it was funny because I was really legit trying to process, and also struggling that day. And so it was a good example of a very kind of dissociated kind of moment of I’m trying to process this, but so much is going on, and it’s not all me. And so that’s part of why I left it in, because I felt like even though it was not the highest quality episode, or most intelligent episode, it was a good example of feeling dissociated. And so I included it, but then I got more emails from that episode appreciating it and appreciating the humor in it than I’ve got on any other episode so far. And so I got my first hate mail, but everybody else liked it. So….
Right, but that’s one out of how many listeners?
Well, it doesn’t bother me though, Julie, because it’s just me. It was real, and it was raw, and that’s just what was happening. That’s how I would talk about it with my husband. That’s how I would just -- like, it was a natural response.
That’s how you would talk about it with me and probably make snarky jokes about it.
Yeah.
And we’re just maladaptive like that, Sasha.
[Laughing] Well, and now, now -- okay, so we’re in groups. We’re in two groups. I haven’t even got to talk about this. We’re in two groups. One we started the Palliative Care Group that Em has to do about our daughter.
Right.
And then we’re also in a DID group now, that is at a hospital, but I mean, we’re outpatient. But we go to this group, but it also has this -- there’s this online component that Colin Ross is trying to do some kind of research or is supervising a student who is doing research or something about psychoeducation online, and what is helpful and what is not. And so I spent two weeks trying to get the guts up to do an episode about that group, and explain it. And I finally sat down the other day to do my homework for group and to talk about group on the podcast. And I opened it up and all it was [laughing] was like an introduction letter, and it’s not even -- the homework for it didn’t even start. [Laughing]
So, I created all of this anxiety and nothing even happened yet.
But you know what? It’s the unexpected that creates the anxiety.
Oh, that’s what I was going to tell you, because it built all this up in me, but in the introduction letter, it talked about maladaptive, but then it also used, instead of saying maladaptive, it said something pathological - pathological dissociation. And so now I’ve moved from maladaptive to pathological [laughing].
Well, we could be pathological together. So, don’t worry. You know what? Honestly, I think it’s great that they have all these titles for people and the trauma they have experienced, but the fact of the matter is you are still you, and I am still me, and at the end of the day, we just got to get through it.
It’s true, and you have to listen to this. It’s not up yet, because we’re still waiting for him to approve it.
Mmhmm.
But Dr. E interviewed, his name is Peter Barach, and he’s the one, he’s the guy who wrote the treatment guidelines for ISSTD.
Oh!
And he is amazing and he is her new mentor. They hit it off like buddies, and he listened to my maladaptive episode, and sent an email to me, which was like legit kind. Okay? First of all, but also, he said that that was just oppressive and that that was -- not to worry about functional or maladaptive dissociation - that that's just not good social justice. [Laughing]
Right.
I mean, those were not his words. I don’t want to misquote him or blame anything on him.
No, but I get what you’re saying, because that’s what I was trying to say is we could label ourselves, but I mean gosh, the list would be long, so let’s just do it.
Judgmental, that’s what he said, he said it’s judgmental and don’t worry about it.
Yeah, well, you know? We’ll use maladaptive in lieu of the word that starts with C and ends with Y. [Laughing]
You crack me up. I thought it was funny. [Laughing]
It is. It’s hilarious. I’m getting it put on a shirt for us. [Laughing]
Oh my goodness.
I need my “I’m not crazy, I’m maladaptive” shirt.
[Laughing]
I need my “Hi, it’s me, Sasha. Can we talk? [Inaudible]”
[Laughing] Oh my goodness. So funny. It’s been a hard week, because we had all those. We also interviewed Chloe, well Kyle, from DissociaDID.
Oh yeah, he did the makeup. I think he got stuck doing the makeup.
We interviewed them for their anniversary of their channel.
Mmhmm.
And it was really good, but then Dr. E also has those big conference things coming up on polyvagal and the keynote for the Plural Conference.
Yeah.
And it has been insane. I can’t even tell you. Like 16, 18 hour days, and then next week we fly three days in a row. We have to fly somewhere, give a speech, and then fly home, and the next day do it again and the next day do it again.
I sent you something special for that.
You did?
Yeah, it’s in your box.
Should I open my mail?
You should open your big, white box from Julie. Ooh! Did you get the brown envelope for John and John Mark?
I did.
Okay, good. That goes with the white box, but I didn’t have enough room, so I had to get an extra envelope to send that.
You’re adorable. You’re so sweet.
Well, I try to take care of everybody. And listen -- so open the box, and I’ll just tell you the logistics of it.
Should I open your box or Donna’s box first?
Um, I know what’s in Donna’s. You can if you already read her letter.
Okay, hold on.
You do you, boo.
[Laughing]
That’s our theme - you do you.
[Background noise opening gift]
Oh, there’s a card on top.
Okay, now --
This is Donna’s. It says System Speak.
Okay, and this might be a long one too.
[Background noise opening gift]
You know what? We had such a hard week.
Uh huh.
And there was a lot of difficulty, and I think, I think part of what went wrong today in therapy -- although I don’t mean to blame anybody inside and the therapist didn’t do anything wrong. But I think what was so hard is that we were on pause for so long that all of that waiting sort of just sort of spilled out and got stuck. And so it’s just been a hard couple weeks and that hate mail and everything, and so to get to our box yesterday and have all those letters in there and all that mail, it was so encouraging.
Yes. Well, I’ve been trying to send something at least once a week, like a card or something.
What?
[Break]
Okay, she said, “This is from Donna. I made this blanket for you and as you open it up and look at it, you’ll see it’s not perfect and has holes throughout the whole blanket. But put together it makes a beautiful blanket and works together to keep you warm. I hope you will use it to stay warm and make you feel safe. NTIS. I want you all to know your podcast has been so wonderful for me and given me insight into my own self. It has made me face my own trauma and understand my feelings. Thank you for everything you’re doing. I think everyone is wonderful.”
Aww, that was so kind.
Wasn’t that sweet? And listen, she really worked hard to make sure that that blanket would not be triggering, as far as colors and stuff. And she reached out to me about it, because she wanted to be very cognizant of not being triggering or upsetting or causing any issues. So she really went through a lot of trouble and I am so proud of her for sending it, because I encouraged her and I told her that you would need that.
That’s so kind. Oh my goodness, it’s beautiful.
I know. I’m a little jealous, because I saw it before you did. [Laughing]
You already got to see it?
Yes, I did.
It’s blue and pink and yellow and like a creamy white and it’s so soft.
I know. I had one when I was little, but one of my emotional abusers decided to take mine and cut it up. So, I was a little jealous. But I’m glad you get one, because you need one.
Aww, Julie. Oh my goodness. You got patchwork quilted.
Yeah.
Did you see that book?
I haven’t seen the book yet. I want to get it. I just haven’t yet, because you know, priorities. And I have a real hard time doing things for myself, but I’m real good at doing them for others, because I’m an octopus. [Laughing]
[Laughing] Get off my face!
[Laughing]
Well, what color was yours? What was yours like when you were little?
Well, my blanket was knit like how Donna did yours, and it was the baby blue, the baby pink, and the white and the yellow, like the baby yellow. And so -- and it had the nice edges on it, and of course I slept with mine every night. And you know, until they up and took it away from me, I did really well. And then they somehow wanted to be ugly to me, and so with that, they took it one day, and they cut it up in front of my face with scissors. Because I think they had tried to hide it, but I found it, and I hid it from them, right?
Oh, Julie. I’m so sorry.
No, it’s okay. And if I’m upsetting you, let me know. But anyway, they hid it from me and I found it. So then I started -- so I found it because I couldn’t sleep without it, it was like a comfort thing, which sounds ridiculous. But I was just six, seven, eight years old.
That’s not ridiculous. That’s not ridiculous. I still have our blanket from foster care.
Oh yeah, well, oh, I still got a blanket. So y’all can hate on that, but [laughing] because my person wouldn’t be so kind to wash it for me.
Ohh.
But I didn’t want to live without it, and I didn’t want to get what was coming when I found out. Well, they ended up going into my closet and finding it, and then because they were mad, they had me sit in a chair and watch them cut it to smithereens. So, that was the end of that. So, but I’m glad you have one, because you need one.
Oh, woman.
[Break]
How did you put all of the pieces together to that story? How do you have all of those pieces? Like what happened? What caused it? How you felt after? And your feelings. How do you --
Well, there were certain things that I don’t know all the pieces to, right? But it’s like on some things that aren’t like they’re bad, right, because that’s a bad thing, right? But it’s not -- like on the scale of 1 to 10 of abuse, I guess you could classify it as a 5 or a 6. But it’s almost like it’s fed to me. Does that make sense?
Wow.
It was fed to me. And the reason why it was fed to me as a memory was when I saw the blanket when Donna sent you the picture of it.
Then you remembered all of that?
Then it was fed to me. But what set me off wasn’t the blanket. It was the way it was knitted.
Wow.
And then it came back. It was kind of like a flashback memory feed kind of thing.
She did a really good job. It’s super tight and very well done. It’s beautiful.
Yeah, it’s beautiful. I was so happy for you. I told her you were going to love it.
Aww, that’s so kind. You’re such a good friend to be happy when something good happens to somebody else - not everybody is like that.
I want you to be happy, and you deserve happy is what I do, because that’s what friends do. You want your friends to succeed and be happy, but it is gorgeous.
Wow.
And I like the little squares. I’m pulling up the picture now, because I saved it. The edges are cute. It’s just cute all the way around. Mine wasn’t exactly like this, but what reminded me of it was the sides and the colors and the holes in the middle, like the holes in the middle of the patch. Do you know what I mean? Like the four holes--
Right.
Yeah, but it’s gorgeous. I’m so glad she sent it to you. That’s going to be so comfy, and you stick that in the washer with a good dryer sheet, oh my goodness. [Laughing]
Wow.
Those are the things I think of. What else did she put in there? I think she put something else in there, because she sent it to me.
She sent it to you?
Pictures.
Oh, okay. Let’s look. A few cards. Here’s an envelope. It says, [laughing], it has stickers on the outside that say “high five”, “we rock.”
Somebody’s been listening to our podcasts.
[Laughing]
[Laughing]
A few cards.
They’re stealing my line.
Every time I laugh now, I’m like, “Oh there was Jiminy cricket? [Laughing]
Look, no. Don’t give him a platform, and don’t give them space in your brain. Forget them. They’re not worth your time. If they want to live in “Negative Nelly Land”, then let them live there, but they’re going to live alone and they don’t get a platform. Sorry.
Okay, it says, “A few cards I liked, a note pad for your purse, and a button I thought was funny for me when I bought it. I know you all don’t eat sweets, but it doesn’t mean you wouldn’t want one. I hope you like them. It’s meant in friendship and total respect.” [Laughing] Now I’m scared.
Okay, inside is these cool bookmark tag things. They’re amazing. I don’t even know how to describe them. I’m going to have to post a picture, because I don’t even know how to describe them. But, it says, “You can not make everybody happy. You are not a cupcake.” [Laughing]
[Laughing] That’s true. So when you think about the person that wrote the hate mail about your laugh, which I’m mailing my middle finger to that person, um --
They’re a survivor, I think. They are Plural or DID, I’m not sure how they identify, but it was an Alter.
Okay, well if I can take photocopies of my middle finger, I’ll make sure to [inaudible].
Julie, it was probably one of your Alters.
[Laughing] No. My People don’t do that.
Okay, this one says, “You only live once, but you might as well be amusing.” [Laughing]
[Laughing]
“Don’t stop believing in yourself. Dream, imagine, grow, become.” Aww. And a little note pad.
Aww.
That’s so sweet. And here’s a pen. The pen says -- ha -- the pen says, “The voices want cupcakes for breakfast.”
[Laughing] That’d be John Mark.
[Laughing] That’s really funny. Oh Donna, that’s funny. I’m going to post pictures of these, because it’s adorable.
She was so thoughtful. She is so nice. Today’s her birthday. So, Happy Birthday, Donna!
No way! Happy Birthday, Donna!
Yes, today is her birthday. So happy birthday to her. She is a very kind lady and I hope I look as hot as she does when I am her age.
She is amazing and she’s lovely.
She has great hair too.
Yeah, she does. Oh my goodness, here’s a whole stack of stickers. We are sticker fanatics. It’s true.
I know. It’s like they heard on the podcast when you did friendship mail, that podcast, and that I had gone crazy with stickers on all the cards. They found out and they all clung to it. Y’all are thieves.
[Laughing] How did you even know what episode that was? You just said the name of the episode. I don’t know what any of the episodes are named.
Um, I have a file cabinet in my head, and it opens when necessary. I don’t know them all. I just know the loser actor that made awful comments --
That’s a really terrible thing. But it was a hard -- what I can say was that it was hard to edit and please don’t eat when you’re my guest on the podcast. Eat before or eat after or say, “just a minute” so I can edit it out. And then you can get a quick snack, but please don’t just crunch your way through. It’s bad enough, like right now I know an airplane went over. There’s nothing I can do about an airplane.
Right. Well, it’s spring here. I sent you spring, hence my flower stickers. And so Julie’s on the front porch taking it in, because I need Vitamin D.
Here’s a bag.
Is it from me?
No, not yet. I’m still on Donna’s.
Wow, she went all out. Go Donna!
She sent some cool erasures, some fancy erasures, and little, tiny -- those will just be fun for playing.
Yeah.
Okay. Aww, that was so sweet, on her birthday she sent me stuff.
Well, you also have to take into account that it’s been almost two weeks since you went to Oklahoma.
Ugh. It was a hard two weeks, so that’s really very kind. Also this is just sweet of people. Oh, wow. She sent some fancy hair things. You know what is really sweet about that? Is that we are just now getting our hair back from chemo. I don’t know if we’ve talked about that, but --
We --
Have we talked about that?
We have. We talked about it in the episode you and I did - Sasha Calls Julie.
Aw. Of course you know this. That’s hilarious.
Mmhmm.
We have ovarian cancer. It is because of scar tissue from abuse, and we have done chemo for four years and we are off IV chemo right now and on low maintenance pills that we have to take for the next five years.
Is that the Tamoxifen?
I don’t even know anymore. I can tell you though --
I think it is.
...that we finally have hair. I could totally post some pictures of our bald -- here’s what’s funny about our bald head. Our bald head is so creepy. [Laughing]
[Laughing]
I don’t mean just because it’s a bald head, but because of head injuries --
Right.
And cochlear implants. Our bald head is covered in scars, because we’ve had head surgery twice, because of abuse injuries in the past.
Right.
And then we’ve also had surgery for our cochlear implants. So between these, our head is just one nasty scar. So when we lose our hair, you can see those scars, and when we have our cochlear implants on, then not only can you see the nasty scars, but also it looks like we just broke out of The Matrix.
[Laughing]
[Laughing]
But you know what? It’s okay. I’m afraid for my head to get shaved, because I’m with you. I have abuse scars on my head. I don’t know what that looks like. [Laughing]
Wow.
It’s probably not looking good, but I’ll find out eventually. But are y’all in remission with the ovarian cancer?
Um, not -- well, ugh. It’s kind of tricky. We’re considered in remission on counts but not off the maintenance chemo.
Right.
And so by blood counts, we’re in remission, but also part of the problem is because we’ve had IV chemo three times in the last four years -- I don’t mean three times you go in, I mean three rounds of 12 weeks, like the on cycles and off cycles or whatever, all of that. We’ve done that three times. And so we pretty much -- there’s nothing left with that that they can do. And so it’s kind of scary, because we can’t really do IV chemo again. They don’t have anything left to do.
When we first got diagnosed, we had a full hysterectomy and --
Mmhm. And a [inaudible] hysterectomy too, right?
Right. All of that surgery stuff. But then the scar tissue that turned cancerous, it was so bad they had to take everything, everything, everything.
Right.
I’m totally moving into TMI category, but there’s no cervix. They had to take the cervix. They had to take the vaginal wall. They had to sew everything completely closed.
It was a total hysterectomy.
Yeah, plus other tissue.
Right. Yeah, because they had to get clean margins.
Yeah.
Or at least try.
Right. Right.
But do you have the issues with the endometriosis afterwards as well?
No, not after. They took everything, everything, the uterus, everything. And then even some external tissue, because it was so -- the scar tissue was so bad.
Right. I’m sorry.
So we had to have several procedures to laser that a bit and reconstruct it. I don’t even -- I’m probably being way too triggering. I don’t usually try to be that triggering. I’m sorry.
No, it’s okay. I did obstetrics and gynecology nursing for a long time.
No way!
Yes. So when you’re telling me this, I can imagine what they did.
Well, it’s a hard thing, because it’s just cancer and everybody gets cancer. I don’t mean everybody has it, but I mean I know a lot of people have it.
Right.
But also, we’re working on a project with Jane Hart about ACE’s and --
Yes.
The Aversive Childhood Experiences, and --
Ooh! I posted something today about trauma informed care, but keep going.
Yes, and there are a lot of people who have chronic pain or chronic illness or cancers or autoimmune disorders who also were abused and went through things. And so it’s a fine line, because cancer is actually a really big part of our life, but I don’t want to trigger people talking about it. And for us it is very associated to our abuse.
Right.
And we do also have Sjogren’s --
Mmhmm.
Because, well I don’t know why we have Sjogren’s. I don’t know if that’s because of ACE’s or not, but it’s an auto-immune disorder, and so we have a lot of problems with our eyes, which is really scary, because we’re already deaf.
Right.
And so the threat of losing our eyesight is kind of a big deal. And our oldest daughter is actually losing her eyesight. And so we’re kind of going through that with her and focusing on her instead of ours, but it’s probably something we need to talk about.
Yeah.
And that’s one of the reasons that they’re sending us to this other therapist who’s also a nurse for that chronically ill group.
Yes. Yes.
Not that we can’t keep our therapist. We are keeping our therapist, but as like specific to the medical stuff, there’s so many pieces to it.
Yes, and actually, I’m really proud of y’all and Em for getting in and doing it.
Oh my goodness. It’s crazy, because now we have therapy three times a week. We see our therapist on Mondays for actual therapy. We have the medical group on Wednesdays, and the DID group on Fridays.
But you know what though? Think of all the growth y’all are making. I am so pro therapy. I’ve even considered going back a little bit here lately, just to fill in some pieces. Because I think I told you last week that I was having a triggering week, because of some external sources --
Right.
-- beyond my control. But I had been considering -- not that I -- sometimes you just need to go in for a maintenance check, you know?
Yes.
Like an oil change.
Yeah.
[Laughing]
I hear you.
And therapy is the best way for me to do that, personally, because I am very introverted when it comes to my feelings and processing my thoughts that I don’t speak of them.
Right. You don’t. You instead talk to me about hiding from you.
Yes.
[Laughing]
[Laughing]
While you were hiding from me.
Well, that’s because you could call me out on it, but I can call you out on it too, because we can see it, so we know it.
It’s true. But it’s hard.
It’s so hard.
Even the husband -- the last time the husband came with us to therapy, while we were in therapy he was like, “I don’t even know what’s happening”, because he only knows if something happens and we’re in the hospital and so the doctor calls him, or when he comes to pick us up from chemo or drop us off at chemo. He’s been in and he’s seen us on chemo and he knows about the chemo and our hair falls out and all. But he knows all of that, because he’s lived through the experience.
Right.
But I didn’t know it was a thing until we realized that that’s what was happening around us that you’re supposed to bring a support person to chemo. We did four years of chemo all by our self.
Yeah. Well, that’s how I am. I went to therapy, but I have no memory of therapy. Does that make sense?
[Laughing] Woman. Are you asking me this? The one who was like, “I need peppermint, because I don’t know what just happened in the last three hours.”
No, I can remember going to the therapist, and I can remember sitting there for the first five minutes, but after that, somebody else handled that.
Exactly.
And then at the end I just kind of got up and walked out the door. And then I was like, “Oh, I am so tired. Let me go sleep this off for four hours.” [Laughing]
Yeah. Yeah.
It’s horrible, because that’s like of the things -- there are a lot of things that I have a lot of amnesia on or that I can't remember, but of the things that I’m like, “Gosh, I wish I remembered that”, I don’t have any clue. [Laughing]
[Laughing] Yeah. It’s true. It’s just, uh, it’s hard. Sometimes I see the therapist from like a million miles away and then I wait to see her either move or say something so that I can know that I’m not just imagining, like it’s not a memory.
Right.
But I know it’s just happening. And then it’s just like, “Okay. So somebody is getting to talk to the therapist, but at least I know she’s still real. So, we’re good, and I can just -- oh wait, here, we must be back, because she’s wearing different clothes. I don’t know what happened for the last week.”
Right.
“But she’s in different clothes and I’m in different clothes, so whatever.” [Laughing]
[Laughing] Right.
Uh. Here are notebooks. Donna sent notebooks.
Oh, that’s cool.
Right?
That’s so kind. That was so thoughtful of her.
And Play-Doh.
That was for John Mark, because he said he liked Play-Doh.
Oh my goodness. So much. We -- I cannot tell you, between inside kids and outside kids, I cannot tell you how fast we go through Play-Doh. We can never have too much Play-Doh, because [laughing] Play-Doh is one of those things that the inside kids can do with the outside kids - that’s it’s safe and appropriate and we know everything’s contained. And the Play-Doh at our house is insane.
Oh, she made these cool little clips! She made clips for my notebooks.
That way y’all can keep your stuff when you want.
Like they are, I don’t remember the word for them in English, like clothes line clips.
They’re...yeah.
But they’re decorated. She painted them and decorated them.
Oh, they’re clothes pins.
Oh my goodness. Those are so pretty. I will take a picture so you can see them.
Oh yeah. I didn’t see those. What else did she send?
That was everything, and it was so kind. Happy Birthday, Donna!
Happy Birthday, Donna!
[Break]
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