Transcript: Episode 38
38. Guest: Jane Heart from “Many Sides of Jane” on A&E
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Hi, we have a very special guest today. We got to talk with Jane Hart from ‘“Many Sides of Jane”, the show that’s on A&E that’s about Dissociative Identity Disorder. Jane Hart is a 28 year old loving mother of two, an author, a public speaker, and a mental health activist. Born and raised in Boise, Idaho, Jane currently resides there with her two beautiful sons. Three years ago Jane was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder, previously known as Multiple Personality Disorder, which has impacted her life in ways she never could have imagined.
One of the exclusive causes of DID is repeated childhood trauma to which Jane has unfortunately endured throughout her life. Dubbing herself a human-information sponge, Jane has spent countless hours researching the effects of trauma on the brain as well as learning as much as she can about DID in the hopes of helping others.
Receiving her diagnosis was tough on Jane mentally and physically, but sharing her condition with a close friend was a turning point for her. Despite their close relationship, her friend assumed Jane was dangerous, damaging their friendship and leaving a lasting impact on Jane. This pivotal point in her life has inspired Jane to shine a light on the cause to diminish the stigma of mental illness, especially those living with DID.
In June 2016, Jane wrote an article sharing her knowledge of DID and her personal struggle which led to a speaking opportunity on a well-known psychology podcast, “Shrink Rap Radio.” The opportunity to chronicle her life living with DID on the new docuseries titled, “Many Sides of Jane” airing on A&E under the guide of her therapist, Jane has currently identified over nine distinct identities or parts as Jane refers to them, and she’s working to unlock the mystery surrounding her trauma and to find internal harmony between her many sides.
Upon agreeing to participate in this rare and raw series, Jane made a promise to herself to be 100% open, real, and honest, letting the world see that those suffering from DID still have the same hopes and dreams as everyone else. Jane’s goal in opening her life to the cameras is not only to erase the misconceptions about the highly stigmatized disorder, but to also normalize mental illness and to spend truth about the silent epidemic of child abuse and its lasting effects on the human brain. Jane feels there is power in sharing her story and it is her mission to help others realize mental health is just as important as physical health. Those suffering with DID are special, smart, and unique. They deserve compassion, kindness, and understanding.
We are very honored to speak with Jane Hart and had a delightful conversation. In speaking with Jane, it was very clear that she was not a victim, but a strong woman with good boundaries, good representation, and that she’s done a good job advocating for herself in this not sensationalized production and they’ve also taken good care of her before, during, and after the show with good self-care. And she’ll give you some examples during the interview.
Just like on the series, we kept the interview raw and real and left in all the exciting parts, like when my children were running through the house while we were trying to talk. That opened us to a conversation about parenting, where we found we had several things in common. It was a really good experience - this interview and I so appreciate her sharing with us.
Here’s Jane Hart
***Interview begins***
Interviewer: Bold Font
Interviewee: Standard Font
I am Jane Hart and I have Dissociative Identity Disorder and right now I have probably 18 plus parts, but on the show we only name around nine. But as you know, things evolve. [Laughs]
Right. Well, and I know for us on the podcast, there are some who are participating and there are some who have opted out, which is totally fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Right. And we try to respect that but then also there’s others who are not in the present time even enough to actually really give consent.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? So, we just don’t go there. We’re not here for displaying everything. That’s not what it’s about.
Yeah, absolutely. I really like that. I really like thinking about it the way that you just described it. That’s nice to be able to relate to someone else in that aspect.
Well, it’s a big deal I think. Right? I mean, all of trauma, however people define trauma or whatever trauma might be specifically, it always comes down to a violation in some way.
Absolutely.
And so it’s important that at any level of whatever we’re doing, that everyone has a voice and a vote and if someone doesn’t understand the implications of something...like we have a few littles who know that the therapist might listen to the podcast, but that doesn’t mean that they understand that other people listen too.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That was a really difficult and interesting thing to navigate in therapy with my therapist about the documentary and which parts wanted to participate and which parts were like absolutely against it. You know, or what not? There was just varying opinions about it inside. It’s a lot more...we’re a lot more on the same page now, but still so many different directions that my parts are going.
Right, just like everything with everything else. Yeah?
Yeah. Absolutely.
Tell me first, before we even get into the show, tell me first, how did you find out about your diagnosis? Is it something you always learned? Someone told you? You figured it out? What happened?
So I was in...I started therapy in 2014 and I just started going to a social worker...a clinical social worker and him and I worked together for almost two years and about a year into treatment we had this conversation. And he goes...like he had diagnosed me with PTSD and then he just said, “Jane, you dissociate.” And I was like, well, we already knew that because of the PTSD. I just didn’t realize what he was talking about. And then he goes, “No, like you have different parts of yourself that have come out to me in therapy and stuff like that.” And then I found out that Alexis, my 17 year old part, had come out to him, to which I had no knowledge.
And so different things started to happen. And then once he said that, it was just like okay, I have to make sure that this is accurate, that this is even happening to me right now. You know what I mean? It was such a big, giant piece of news for my life and so I found Dr. Waters and he did all of the testing - the SCID-D, MMPI, and a bunch of different tests. And finally told me, “Yeah, you have DID and this is how we’re going to treat it, and et cetera.”
How did that sink in through the layers of you?
Oof, that was...it took several months of swimming in that denial. It was painful. In the denial of this can’t be real, this can’t be happening to me. And then also the realization that I don’t remember all of my childhood and now that’s front and center in my brain and I’m thinking, What else happened to me? You know? What else could have happened to me that I don’t already know about? And those memory gaps had always been there. I pushed it to the side. You know what I mean?
Right.
But no, it took a long time. It was a difficult process, but I made a denial book and it really helps me out whenever I have a hard time or what not. But it did, it took a long time for everybody inside to feel okay and then even for my life to just get back to normal. Almost like homeostasis, I had to find that again.
Wow. What? Did you say, “a denial book?”
Mmhmm.
What is a denial book?
[Laughs] So, you know the feeling of denial that I’m talking about, right? Where you think…
Right.
Okay, well in the first part of this book, it’s just this big three-ring binder, and I put my paperwork of my diagnosis and letters from my doctors and stuff like that that prove I have DID. And then even because in episode six, sorry to jump forward, but in episode six, Harvard and we have a Harvard professor who does an fMRI on my brain…
Oh, wow.
...at this hospital in Boston and it shows changes between Beth and I - my 10 year old part. And sparking major research in the field and that is something that we’ll venture into and explore when it airs on Tuesday. But I just lost my entire train of thought.
Oh, but denial book! [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Sorry! [Laughs]
It’s fine, it’s fine.
I just put a bunch of stuff together, like journal entries from when I was a kid, because I saved all of my journals since I was like six or seven. And I went through them and I ripped out some pages about the abuse and I put it in there so anytime I would deny or I would think or those scripts from my abusers that were just so ingrained in my head, when those would start to take over, just consume me, I would open up that denial book and be like, “No, this is real. This is tangible. Look at this.” You know what I mean?
That’s amazing actually.
It really helps. I have it sitting on my bookshelf and I look at it frequently and so do other parts.
That’s amazing. I had never even thought about that. That’s something obviously a lot of people struggle with in therapy and in the process of this. And we had journals from when we were children too, but we don’t have them now. But we do have contact with our therapist or different things that document it. But that’s amazing. You compiled it all together in one thing so that anyone can look at it when they need to.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of like a safety blanket essentially.
How did you find your therapist?
Um...I looked on, to be completely honest, I went to psychologytoday.com and I looked on there and I just...I wanted to find someone with their PhD who could do all the testing and someone who had a background in trauma - in trauma therapy and stuff like that. It was bizarre when I reached out to him.
I sent him an email, and I just said, “My current therapist thinks I have DID. I really need to get tested. Are you available? Is this something that you’re interested in or is this something that you believe in essentially?” Because there were so many other psychiatrists and therapists and stuff like that, people in the medical community who turn up their noses and they’re like, “you’re lying” even though it’s right there in the DSM-5.
Right? Right.
You know? And so I just had to make sure he wasn’t one of those. And then he wrote me back and said, “Oh my god.” He goes, “This is incredical.” He said, “I just met with my aunt this weekend and I asked her, ‘How do I find DID clients? How did I find patients that have DID?’” Because his aunt has been a pioneer in DID treatment in Vancouver, Washington for decades.
Oh, wow.
And for decades and so he grew up around women with DID. She has a whole house up in Vancouver, Washington for...it’s a respite home for women with DID. They have an entire art room and for quotes about your littles and it’s so random. So, he reached out and we finally connected and it just worked out.
That’s amazing. I think you hit on something there, because one of the hardest pieces is getting a diagnosis.
Yes.
But the other big piece is finding someone who can help.
Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and what’s difficult and what I think a lot of therapists don’t understand is that just because you’ve never had a DID patient, it doesn’t mean you don’t know how to treat it. You’re treating trauma and you can research and there are more things that you can do and it’s better to have a rapport with that client than to pass them off to somebody else. Does that make sense?
Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Well and, I would say...I would go so far as to say, if they think they have not had a DID client, they are probably wrong. [Laughs]
Exactly. Yeah. That’s very true.
Especially the more we find out about dissociation and how it works in the brain and how much more common it is than what people realize.
Well, and what’s fascinating is that in my apartment building...I live in a really big apartment building and so there’s tons of other people that live here, and I have now met, because of the show, I have now met five other people that have DID in my building alone.
Oh my goodness.
Like that is crazy. So you know that there are so many others. You know what I mean? There really are.
It’s a powerful thing when you meet someone else with DID.
Mmhmm.
There’s something validating about it. You have to be careful about boundaries and making sure safety and maintaining things, just like any other relationship, but there’s something powerful about connecting with someone who understands what life is like.
Absolutely. Well, and it’s been...and I don’t know them very well, the people that are in my building who also have DID, but just kind of in passing have said thank you. I have DID as well. It’s been this powerful moment. We may never speak again, because you know, whatever. But that solidarity, I don’t know. It’s a very powerful thing.
Well, and it has its own coming out process. And for them to be able to say out loud, “I have DID” to someone else who is safe and understands that…
Yeah.
...even if they don’t connect with you otherwise, that’s a big moment.
Yes, absolutely. It’s a huge moment for anyone with a trauma history, to be completely honest. You know? To be able to connect with somebody else about the very things that have defined us in a way. You know?
There’s something about finding our voice again and being able to say things out loud, even if that’s the only piece we say.
Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with that.
Okay, let’s jump to the show. How did that even happen? [Laugh]
I know, right?
How did you get from this to that? What happened?
I feel like it’s still just sinking in. I don’t even know or understand. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
But so, I’ve had a while for it to sink in. But we’ve been working on it for about two years and the way that they found me...so when I was first diagnosed with PTSD, I wrote an article about PTSD. And then I realized a year into therapy that I might have DID and then once I realized I might have DID, I began reading everything I could, everything I could get my hands on - scholarly articles, books, I’d go to the library. I probably spent way too much money on books.
Right? [Laughs]
[Laughs] And those are expensive…
They are!
The Norton series. But I wrote an article about DID after realizing that, it was just statistics, that people with DID are in the system for five to 12 years before they’re properly diagnosed, I learned.
Wow.
I learned that 70% of people with DID attempt suicide at some point in their life. That’s higher than any other mental health diagnosis out there.
Yes.
And when I realized that, I couldn’t keep my mouth shut. I’ve always had this passion for helping other people and for using my talents that the universe gave me like writing and all of that stuff. So, I wrote an article and because of that article, I was given the opportunity to go on a well-known psychology podcast on “Shrink Rap Radio.” And I went on Shrink Rap Wrap Radio to talk about DID and to educate his viewers and stuff like that. Or his listeners.
And then Renegade83 Production Company two months later, sent me a message on Facebook and found me because of that podcast interview. And ever since then, we’ve been working together to make the series. And it was from the beginning, it was just like this...well, they kept calling it...it was their passion project is what they’d say - the network. And Renegade…. is what they’ve always said about “The Many Sides of Jane.” They’d say this is their passion project and because they know how important this topic is and they know that people with DID need help and we need that voice, that loud voice. And A&E knew that they could provide that.
And so it’s been this process where we have legitimately been in this collaborative and incredible relationship where we’re all on the same page and we’re all trying to do the disorder justice and to get it right for everybody that struggles with it and make sure that we say that everybody’s system is different. Mine is probably...it may not match yours, you know? And everybody’s looks differently and is different because we are all creative individuals and have a different brain. But it’s something that I feel has been the universe laying this out for me and it just kind of took a lot of deliberation to decide to do it, but once I did, I was just both feet in. [Laughs]
Oh, seriously. All the feet in.
[Laughs] All the feet.
[Laughs] That’s been such an intense experience. I can’t imagine.
Do you know the feeling, I’m sure you do, but you know how it is so hard to recharge when you’re around people?
Yes.
Like with DID? It’s almost impossible and so I struggled. It was 12 hour days for eight weeks with one day off a week. And it was intense. It was like intensive therapy for eight weeks, because you constantly are being asked, “How are you doing? How are you feeling? Who’s close to the surface?” But it’s not in a bad way. They’re not badgering you. They’re not being mean. They all made sure that we were taken care of. That we were cared about. That we were safe and felt loved and appreciated and all of that stuff. But it was grueling. It was so grueling. And afterwards, because we knew it was going to be hard, my therapist said, “You know Jane, I’m here for you.” And he goes, “But this documentary series, this will bring you guys to the edge of your psyche.” And he goes, “And I believe you’re strong enough.” And he said, “And you’ll be okay, but it’s going to be really hard.”
And so afterward, they sent me to a trauma center, to The Ross Institute, to kind of recover for a little bit afterwards. And they paid for all of that and so they’ve been really careful and cautious throughout this whole time with me.
That’s amazing.
Yeah.
That they really...I think that’s reflected in the show.
Good.
I know in the show is not the same as what your experience was, but I think it’s reflected in the show too, how they seem to be aware of that and trying to be cautious with that.
Yeah.
So, I think everyone is glad to hear that. I think there’s two pieces when you have an audience. I experience this on the podcast, just on a tiny scale. So, I can’t imagine what you’re dealing with. But, people...there’s this one layer where people feel very connected to you and another layer where because of that, they feel very protective of you.
Yes. Absolutely.
[Laughs] And so I think people are glad to hear that that was handled so well and that they were so there.
Oh, yes.
It shows that they were trauma-informed to begin with…
Absolutely.
...that they knew there needed to be some self-care after.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know they really took the guidance from Dr. Waters and from Dr. Chefetz. They really listened to them about DID and about what I needed. And they also listened to me and about what my parts needed. It was just really incredible and I couldn’ have imagined going on this endeavor without my attorney and how incredibly careful she was in the beginning of this whole process.
Because when they first met me or when they first started talking to me, I needed to make it known that I was not going to be misrepresented. I wasn’t going to do this if they were going to sensationalize this disorder, because that’s the last thing we need as a group of people.
And so my attorney, she’s incredible, and she just kind of fell into my lap. But she knows the business in and out and she advocated for me and she made sure that the network understood where I was coming from and where I was at and what I expected from them. And they have been nothing but incredible to me. So, it’s been good.
It feels like such a large scale example of practicing good boundaries and good self-care and some of those things we’re supposed to be learning how to do internally. And you did it externally. Because that’s a lot of people - when you’re talking about your therapist and your doctor and the Colin Ross place and the producers and the show and all of the...like that’s a whole system in and of itself.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it brought me a ton of newfound self awareness and newfound compassion for myself even, because it’s almost like...you know, when you’re going through the rigamarole of life and you’re going through the rhythm and my life as a single mom is so busy. And I have medical conditions, you know? My kids both have different needs. You know? I’m at the school frequently. So, life can get really busy, but when you see it on TV and you see it on screen and you’re watching after everything’s put together in my story, it’s just the weirdest thing to watch. It’s so strange, but it also gives you a new outlook on yourself. I feel like I’m very blessed that I got this opportunity, despite no matter how difficult it was. I feel like I’ve come a long way.
It was a positive impact even though it was so grueling to do.
Yeah, it’s been a positive, a positive thing. The messages that I’ve received since the show has come out have been overwhelmingly positive. It’s just a bunch of people standing in solidarity with one another about mental illness and childhood trauma and DID - you know that stuff. It’s like all of the people that haven’t had a voice, you know? They’re messaging me and saying thank you for doing this. Or I experience the same thing. Or they’re just making that human connection that it’s just a cool thing. It’s very cool, but it also adds its own unique set of stresses to my life, but I’m managing very well I think.
It changes things. I know that when we started the podcast, it was for several reasons of what you shared of just wanting to educate, trying to be vulnerable because it’s so real and people think it’s not real or there’s all this stigma and so trying to include those layers. But the more that comes out, then there’s more that’s exposed and then it just went viral. It went crazy. So then everybody was listening to it and talking about it.
[Laughs] Yup.
It’s like what happened?
[Laughs] Yeah.
And you know when you start getting those emails of I don’t know who you are [chuckles] or whatever, but when you hear peoples’ stories and start connecting to people and seeing how uniting together internally or externally in different ways, not just gets you on the same page or helps you get help, but that’s such an empowering thing that we can do for ourselves and for each other as a community.
Absolutely. I 100% agree with that. That was so eloquently stated.
[Chuckles] Thank you very much. [Laughs]
Yeah. [Laughs]
What surprised you most about the show - either doing it during those grueling weeks or watching it back later?
What surprised me most? Is that what you asked? I’m sorry.
Yes.
Oh, I would say watching it later. So throughout filming, I would make these...and honestly to this...I feel bad to this day, for making these comments. But, I was thinking in my head of like, I know Hollywood or I thought I did. And I was like so, I’m probably not going to be happy with everything in the end. So, I can’t change that and so I was like I’m just going to do this and I’m going to get through it and I’m not going to watch it. And that’s what I was thinking, like I can’t watch it. This has been too hard. I need to get through it and see the light at the end of the tunnel and then I don’t want to watch it.
I would make these flippant comments to the crew saying oh, I’m not going to watch it or yeah, there’s no way I could watch it or I’m scared or I’m terrified. You know, I’d say all these different things. And what has been interesting has been that now that I have seen the episodes and watched it come together, I find myself just bawling, because it’s like, I could not have pictured anything more beautiful than what they came up with. And I know that there are ways in which it could have been better obviously. But from the vantage point that I was at during production and how hard that was, it really makes me proud of going through that, of getting through that and of what I did.
It is a beautiful thing. It really is well done.
Yeah, I love it. I was just so proud of everybody and I can't believe the amount of work that goes into making something like that. I was just so fascinated the entire process. It’s a fascinating process indeed.
It’s intense. They work really hard.
They really do and everybody does. And when they were putting it together in post production...because you know, my younger parts, my abusers would use empathy, like my empathy against me. And so I think that I’m more...like some of my younger parts are a lot softer and want to make sure everybody is okay a lot of the time. And so especially people that have helped us and so when we were going through post production and I was seeing how this was coming together and it was affecting me so emotionally. I begged them and said please, please, please fly us down to do the last round of pickups and I want to meet everyone in that office and shake their hand and give them a hug and tell them thank you.
And they were just like, “Okay. We’ve never had that happen, but sure.”
[Laughs]
My younger parts felt so satisfied, because we just wanted to look at each one of them in the eye and just pour out our hearts and be like, “You have no idea how much this has touched us.”
Aww, that’s so beautiful. I have seen only good feedback and in the community that I have talked to people about or even at the DID conference in Florida where...did you hear that?
I did, what was that?
Was that at your house or my house? [Laughs]
[Laughs] I think that was at your house.
I have children home on a snow day so I’m not sure what’s happening out there. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
I’m just going to let that go for right now. [Laughs] Oh goodness. Sorry. So, anyway, at the DID conference in Florida, people were talking about it there and…
Oh, cool. Good.
And we’re talking about it on the groups online obviously. And everything that I have seen has been really good, other than people where it was just too close to home and they weren’t ready for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And the only thing that I’ve seen that was negative was how they portrayed the switching, but for me…
Yeah.
...for me, and I’m not speaking for other systems, maybe that made them uncomfortable for whatever reason, but for me, I thought...I loved it. I loved it. I didn’t think it was too over the top like the fuzzy….
Good, yeah.
...faces or whatever, because for me, that’s how I feel - not quite in my body or not sure where my body is. [Laughs]
Yeah.
When I saw that, to me, it was not too much special effects for me. It was like, “How did they do that?!” [Laughs]
[Laughs]
How did they show that? Because that’s what it feels like to me when I’m switching. I don’t know about how it feels even to other people inside. But my experience of switching is just like what they showed visually - that’s how I feel.
Yeah, and I think that’s what they were trying to capture. Well the whole purpose for putting the edit in there is because we know as people with DID how subtle those switches can be.
Right.
And how Hollywood hypes it up. And it’s like, we don’t sprout wings and we know that and so when we switch, it was hard from the networks perspective. It was like, well we have viewers that need to be able to understand and know when Jane has gone from one part to the next. And so they just needed that little bit of editing, I think, in there to just say, “Okay everybody, now she’s switched to Jaden or Beth or what not.” And it was also representative of how loud it can get in my head and the feeling of chaos.
Yes. Yes. I just...I really appreciate it, because that’s how it feels to me. [Laughs]
Aww, yeah.
I thought it was good visual art even, not just special effects, but there was an art piece to it of how they processed that. And you’re very right about how loud it gets when there’s switching and when there’s people arguing or more opinions about something and it does feel like there’s [chuckles] many sides. Not just that there are inside, but just the many sides to this argument or many sides to this topic or I’m trying to focus on something and there’s so many opinions on one thing.
Yes. Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh, yeah. [Laughs] It feels so good. It’s such a unique experience to talk to somebody else with DID.
Right?
And even for like others to see two people interact that both have DID, because it’s like this...oh, it’s so interesting. It’s like this unconscious understanding.
You just resonate. You already understand.
Yeah. Yes. And like we just get it and we just now we get it - almost like the committee in our head recognizes the committee in your head. Do you know what I mean? [Laughs]
[Laughs] I already am working on the understanding that it’s not just you I’m talking to. There’s already a crowded room and someone’s climbing in my house. I don’t even know. [Laughs]
[Laughs] Well, I hope your kids are okay.
[Laughs] I have six kids so there’s no telling what’s happening.
Well, that’s amazing. You have a full time and a half job.
We love the children.
We do. [Laughs] That’s really funny.
There’s so many children. So when you think about children inside and children outside, parenting is exhausting. [Laughs]
It is. And do you also have a hard time not ruining Christmas every year?
Yes. yes.
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
Having little parts inside and the ones that want to find presents with my children, it’s not okay.
Yes. It’s true. In fact, yesterday we had an incident where the children were supposed to be coming home from school and the husband was going to be there and when they walk home from school, we always open the front door, but the glass door is still closed, you know?
Uh huh.
But it’s easy for them to open the glass door. So, we always open the front door so that’s not hard for them when they come in and my husband deals with them while I sort of transition from my day without children to my day with children. Which obviously involves some switching, right?
Yeah.
So he always helps with that transition, but he had taken another child, picked them up early and taken them for a doctor’s appointment and they were delayed getting back because of the weather. And so I didn’t know that and somehow we missed the timing and the door was closed and so the children thought no one was home and it turned into this big whole thing and I was like, I don’t know why you didn’t just come into the house. Because the door was not locked. The door was not locked. The door was not locked. Because I was working, so I didn’t go down and lock the door. I didn’t lose time. Like you guys can’t pin this on me.
[Laughs] Right. Aww.
But then after we talked to the kids we went to the kitchen and dinner was already cooked and I was like, “Ugh!” I totally locked my kids out.
[Laughs]
And so it was me, except it wasn’t me.
That is hilarious. Oh my goodness. Yeah, navigating parenting with a bunch of parts is definitely an experience in and of itself.
Yeah, it’s so intense. And the surprises, it’s always hard. That’s always hard.
Yes. Yup.That is a hard one.
We got Legoland tickets for our child who is turning 10 and that was his birthday present.
Oh, cool.
And he was so excited because he’s waited. He’s waited, waited to get to go and obviously there were some insiders that were very excited to also go.
Heck yeah.
So, it was a big deal. So he blows out his candles and we give him the tickets and before he’s even done opening the envelope, he’s like, “Are these my Legoland tickets?” And I’m like, “How do you know? Who told you?”
[Laughs] Aww. That’s awesome.
It’s hard. So yeah, good and bad. What’s the hardest thing about parenting with DID, do you think - besides presents?
I would say the hardest thing about parenting with DID is the noise to be completely honestly honest with you.
Yes!
Because I love my children and being a mom is so easy for me and for my parts that it doesn’t...it’s the noise that really I have a hard time with. Both my boys, they have severe ADHD and then my youngest has autism and so they’re both super, super smart, but have so much energy and they’re very vocal and they’re amazing. They tell the most incredible stories, but they’re very loud and so if I’m having a hard time or if my head hurts or if there’s a lot of switching or for instance, if an episode is airing. You know? Or it’s a Tuesday, I’m sometimes… all I want to do is shut myself in the room for an hour, because I can’t think straight. You know what I mean?
Right.
When there’s so much noise. And I can’t imagine it with six kids. That would be overwhelming.
It’s bad. Well and we are, the body, my body, is deaf. Everybody is deaf, completely deaf. But we have cochlear implants. So, with the cochlear implants I can talk on the podcast, I can edit the podcast, I can hear in real life, I can hear one person at a time, I can hear one sound at a time.
Really?
And so how that changes internally or what hearing my voices are like internally, which sometimes is seeing them because our native language is sign language and having that out with the kids and those issues, it gets really complicated. And so I can cheat, because I can take my ears off and so that can help. I can take my ears off and it takes away the volume of the outside kids.
I couldn’t even imagine what that experience is like. And I wondered and like sorry this is where my head goes, because I’m such a scientist. But I go like, oh my gosh I wonder what that would look like under an fMRI. You know what I mean? You know, with your hearing and with DID and different things like that. That’s very interesting.
Right? It’s a different experience and just a different perspective, but hearing all that noise together internally with the external noise, is so hard.
It is very, very hard. That is something I struggle with. I really enjoy putting in binaural beats and I’ll just put headphones in and there’s tons of different apps for binaural beats. But I set it to a certain brain wave or a certain tone, frequency and it will help calm me down and stuff like that. It does help soothe the internal noise as well.
That’s amazing.
But they are tones that go into both of your ears and that change your brain waves to a different state that you want to be in. Like if you want to feel more relaxed, you go into alpha, you know, or beta, or whatever. I’m not sure. I can't remember which ones.
I read about that and I read the research on that, but I didn’t know there were just apps for it. I should have made that connection, but I didn’t at all.
Yeah, they’re really cool. The apps are super helpful.
My oldest son also has autism.
Wow.
He was probably the one that was climbing the house outside.
[Laughs] Maybe. My youngest, he’s so cute, but he’s very, very smart. But he also does climb everything. That’s for certain. He has no fear.
Right?
[Laughs]
They have that and it’s a thing. Okay, anything else? I’m sorry we got off topic. I apologize.
It’s totally fine.
I was trying to stay focused. [Chuckles]
Okay, actually I have a question for you. I was just curious, do you also...like have you read about...I’m sure you have...about the Adverse Childhood Experiences?
Yes.
Okay, so…
ACEs?
Yup. So, do you also have random and weird and unexplainable health issues as well along with your DID? Because I know it’s so common for other people with DID and one of my friends, Julie, who also has DID. She has several different issues that go right along with the research in that book - in the book about the ACEs test.
Um, I do. I have several things that I don’t mind sharing. One is I have an auto-immune disorder that took a really long time to figure out what was going on.
Oh, wow.
So we’re trying to get treated for that and trying to address that, but it’s pretty cranky like most auto-immune disorders are. Right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And then the other thing is I’m trying to take a moment for internal approval, like what can I share.
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so sorry if that caught you off guard too.
No, no, no. It’s totally fine. It’s just I also don’t want to be too triggering, so I’m just trying to think. So the other issue that we have medically is that because of abuse we have scar tissue that turned into cancer and we’ve been fighting cancer for five years. That’s because of scar tissue from the abuse.
Wow, I’m so sorry.
So those are kind of the two ways it’s presented for us. But I absolutely think it’s about ACEs. And then my children are all adopted from foster care.
Oh, wow. You are a beautiful soul. That’s amazing.
We’re a mess. [Chuckles]
[Laughs] No.
But we’re trying. But they… I see the same things with them. I see different things coming up with them that are related in the same way, I think. I mean, they all have special needs. We have three, 10 year olds, one is deaf like me with cochlear implants, one has autism, and one has cerebral palsy. And then we have two, six year olds and one of those has fetal alcohol and one has reactive attachment. And the baby that’s on palliative care, well, she’s not a baby. The baby of the family, you know how that goes? She’s three, almost four. She’s not a baby at all anymore. But she was born without an airway and that is obviously a problem and she is on palliative care and has a G-Tube and oxygen and all of that. But all of them, I see the ACEs stuff with them too.
Wow. And what an incredible opportunity that you have to just make a difference in six incredible kids’ lives. You changed their entire lives. It blows me away. That’s amazing.
We’re trying. We’re trying.
Aww.
It’s hard.
I bet. Sounds very hard.
And the DID piece explains some things and makes other things harder, but was already there before we had words for it. So it doesn’t necessarily change things.
Yeah. Yeah. You are awesome. You are a very good human. That’s very awesome to get to talk to you and that you wanted me on your show and all of that stuff.
Oh, well I appreciate your time and I appreciate you talking to us.
Yeah, of course.
Is there anything else that you want to share about you or the show or anything we missed or any impression you feel from listeners that you get asked a lot that you want to say here? Or anything like that?
I guess the only thing that I really want to say at the end here is just that the people that have reached out to me, and quite frankly, in terror of the fact that they may have DID. That they related so deeply to my experience that they may have it. I just want to tell them that it’s going to be okay and it gets so much easier. You know? The more my parts and I have learned to work together and the more I’ve gotten to know them and who they are and why they’re here and why they helped me and how, it makes life so much more manageable and so much happier and fuller.
And you know just like in the beginning of therapy when I was so scared, one of my biggest fears was to actually feel the emotion of sadness and to cry because I couldn’t cry. I could cry and watch movies. I could watch sad movies and that was how I cried and I would use that as an outlet, because I didn’t have access to it otherwise.
Right.
But I’m so afraid of finally opening up that dam, but once I did, I’m able to now feel other emotions like happiness, even more deeply and fuller. You know what I mean? And I had forgotten about that, and so I guess it’s just...it makes me sad that there’s a lot of people that are struggling or are in this panic mode. I just want to be like, “It will get better. Hang in there.” [Laughs]
It’s so true. It’s really scary in the beginning when you don’t understand what’s going on or why it’s happening.
Yeah.
But I agree with you, the more that we learn, which for us has happened a lot through the podcast. It’s kind of like you talk about watching the show.
Yeah.
We’ve learned so much that I never knew about some of them from listening to the podcast.
Oh, that’s awesome.
So I agree with you, but it is so much less scary when you just see how real they are and how human they are.
Yes.
And what they need and reaching out to them. Thank you so much.
Yeah, absolutely. You’re very...what you’re doing is amazing with this podcast. I think it’s just really incredible and I commend you for it. It’s a big deal.
Well, thank you for the show. I feel like I don’t want to put added pressure on you, but at the same time I can’t not recognize what a big deal it is, what you’ve done and what A&E has done.
Yeah.
I feel like we had such breakthroughs early in the field of studying this. I mean, it’s been around longer than that, but in the early years of studying it and then there were some breakthroughs of attempts. The field exploded of trying to understand and trying to help and trying to put pieces together.
Mmhmm..
And then we have the whole backlash of no, don’t talk about it because it’s scary and you’re going to get in trouble which retraumatized so many.
Yes.
And then the response to that with more stigma and movies that are so cruel and how they depict it - or TV shows or things. And so to have an honest and raw and real depiction of what DID is like, what it looks like from the outside, what it feels like from the inside, is such a gift to so many people and kind of changes the whole #MeToo to the #WeToo.
Absolutely. Yes.
It’s a powerful thing and I’m so grateful to you and to A&E and for your courage in doing this. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. It’s been such a wild ride, such an interesting journey. But I feel like with...just FYI for the next episode on Tuesday, the next two episodes, because they go back to back, five and six do on Tuesday, that one’s going to be a really hard one. I don’t have recollection usually when one of my parts Ashley is out and she opened up in a way that I didn’t realize during production and said things that I had no idea what she had said in the diary cam.
Oh wow.
And so when I watched it, I just broke down and cried. I was like this is powerful, but it’s almost so mortifying that this is my life that’s about to be out there of something that’s so intimate of the trauma. And so just an FYI there, it will be pretty triggering for a lot of people.
Thanks for the heads up.
Yeah.
I’m grateful even for her courage in sharing and to say things out loud when so many of us have been told for so long not to say anything.
Yeah. Absolutely.
It’s a powerful thing.
It really is. And that part has grown so much because of that. So it’s a good thing and so fun for me. Such a good experience to be able to talk to someone like minded.
I’m so glad.
Yes!
I appreciate it and I didn’t know we had so many things in common either. That was pretty funny.
[Laughs]
***End of interview***
You can find a link to the article Jane mentioned, as well as more information about A&E and Jane and her show on the blog, systemspeak.org. Thanks for listening.
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