Transcript: Episode 8
8. Love Fest
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Hi guys, its Sasha, and I have a thousand things to tell you. I can’t wait, I don’t even know where to start. We’ll start first with the bear stuff, I guess.
So, November has just finished, so thanks to those of you who have already joined our club. We just finished our first Q&A with the little bears and that was super fun and not scary at all. I was really glad to get through that for the first time, just answering questions from some of our listeners and supporters in the Little Bears club, thank you! We also now have an official list of Big Bear topics for those who have joined that level. And for those who signed up for Bear Metals, since we have just finished November, we sent out the November metals and it was so fun to make them and I’m so excited for your littles to see them, they should be arriving this week. Its super exciting to have some support to be able to do the podcast and keep it going, as well as be able to help others who are looking for information.
If you haven’t joined our club yet, go to our website, www.systemspeak.org and you can sign up!
The other big news is that we are officially signed and registered and have a flight and hotel and everything- we are officially going to the Infinite Minds conference, the Healing Together conference on D.I.D. Super excited. I know some other friends who are going, I want to learn more, I want to figure some of this out and I’m excited to connect with others, see what there is to learn and if it helps us any. But also, we just really like airplane trips! So, we can take one legit without running away or disappearing. So, no fugueing, we have a ticket, everyone knows where we’re going, we’re on the same page. The Husband knows where we’re going, its all going to be okay.
We’ve also contacted some of the people who will be speaking there as well as other experts and will be sharing some of those interviews in coming weeks. Its going to be great you guys, word is getting out and more people are learning together and I’m so excited. And yes, if you want to go to the conference too and haven’t heard about it, its in February in Florida and you can find a link to more information about it on our website on the blog. So yes! That’s the other big news! Our website is officially up and running. Its www.systemspeak.org. So that’s super exciting.
We also have lots of things planned for the podcast including lots of guest speakers, a discussion with another survivor about a recent article about the difference between dissociation and psychosis. I don’t really understand all that, but I know there was a strong response in the community, so another survivor and I are going to talk about that on an upcoming podcast.
(Piano music playing)
Okay, so we’ve taken a little break after all the boring announcements which I didn’t even get to make all by myself, so I don’t know how you can hear that or see that but…. I’m a little more myself now and a little more chill and we don’t have to talk about boring things. I have a surprise actually, guess what is the surprise? Its, The Husband! We’re going to interview him, like, right now.
(Sasha pauses and the episode resumes)
Sasha- I can’t even do this.
The Husband (Nathan) is laughing
S-I am here with The Husband, say hi
N-Hi
S-And we’re going to talk about D.I.D. because it’s what we do
N-Sounds good
S- And what do you know about D.I.D.? I started really broad (laughing)
N- Its okay. My understanding is that D.I.D. happens in response to serious trauma that occurs during early childhood while the personality is still being developed. And as a way of protecting itself, different aspects of the personality are partitioned off in different areas and are creating what is essentially identities or personalities that may or may not be aware of each other.
S- Okay, mic drop. I feel like the podcast has now been done (both are laughing), completed, there’s nothing else for us to teach the world. (Sasha laughing hysterically). I don’t even have a response to that. Also, I think you are smarter than me.
N- You know what just occurred to me? Maybe this is a terrible metaphor, its like a blister. (Sasha says, oh my goodness he loves metaphors). So. When your finger gets burned, to protect itself it forms that pouch of liquid. It’s created by your body to save itself, but it’s portioned off from the rest of it but its not really a different you, yet it’s an individual little cell.
S-That’s both amazing and disgusting. (Nathan says, I’m sorry it seemed better in my head and Sasha laughs). No, I had to think about it. So, here’s the thing about him. I don’t know how he dates everybody else but let me tell you, when he starts talking to me, my mind is blown and I can’t figure out what he said (Nathan laughs). I tell him so many times, can you just text that to me so I can look at it again because I have to process that? My brain can’t keep up with what he’s figuring out. It’s helpful, I just can’t figure it out. Moving on, tell your story of how you found out about D.I.D. and as a follow up question, did that make sense to you?
N- We were already married, (Sasha says I think 5 or 6 years I’m not sure, it’s a time question so its unfair). It was less than 6, and my wife was going to therapy, and every once and a while she’d say something like (Sasha says because dead parents).
S- Let me clarify, someone pointed out something. Theres discrepancy with the dead parents. They both had cancer. One died from cancer, the other died from a car accident before they died from cancer, does that make sense?
N- So every once a while she would drop something like, you know I’m dissociative right? I’d be like, okay what does that mean? She’d say, well you know how I ordered hamburgers with onions the other day and I don’t like that usually? And I’d say, okay that’s weird, alright. (Sasha laughs). Then finally she sent me a video on D.I.D. and I said okay but I don’t think I applied it yet. Then she explained, (Sasha says, she sent that while not explaining it in a video? Then Sasha starts laughing and says that’s awesome).
Then, it was explained to me you have D.I.D., and I felt silly for not having noticed. (Sasha say, by the therapist.) No, by you initially or one of you. (Sasha says, no but we met with the therapist). Yes, after that we went to the therapist to help me understand what was going on and be able to talk about it in a safe place. I think you were anxious about opening up to me about it because you’ve had bad experiences in the past talking about it.
But I’ve never had a problem with it. (Sasha says, which is so weird) I know it seems like it should’ve been harder with strangers but its never bothered me. (Sasha, because it made sense, why did it make sense?) Because people are complex. This is how I think of it and it’s probably not how a therapist would explain it but, when I think about myself there’s a part of me that loves being a dad and a part that hates being a dad. There’s a part of me that’s really outgoing and part of me really shy. I have all these contradictions within me, different parts of myself. So DID to me sound like partitioning off different parts of yourself, not voluntarily, but it sounds like a whole person with walls inside. That doesn’t make it any less of a person. So, if I meet an alter who’s more playful, or childlike, or serious, or depressed or louder or quieter, (Sasha, or awesome-r) or awesome-r (laughs) to me those are just parts of a person.
S-Do you know when different people are out, fronting, or can you tell or how do you tell or know?
N- I admit I’m not super great at it, I have difficulty recognizing peoples just out in the wild (N laughs).
S- Can you tell the difference between us or does that matter?
N-When I really focus, I can tell the difference. I feel like I should be more sensitive to it, other people can tell right away. But as I said d I think of all of you as you. And whenever I specifically talk to one of you by name, it seems to embarrass you or make you feel uncomfortable.
S- there’s been such a long time of having to (Nathan, hide) yeah. And not just waiting for a diagnosis for her to know about that but because we had therapists in the past who weren’t good at different instances where we were overly exposed. So, now, we are still working through layers of needing to protect ourselves, I guess. Building safety.
N- There’s a number of factors that made me not notice for a long time. I don’t usually worry about which one of you it is even though I do interact with some of you differently than others. When I focus, I can tell but I usually don’t worry about it.
S- Also you can’t tell people apart anyway, you have that facial thing (N, yeah, I’m facially illiterate, I have a hard time telling peoples faces apart) (both laughs). And you don’t remember them when you’ve met that, I don’t mean us, I mean out in public.
N- yeah people I’ve had one on one meetings with more than one time I’ll see in another context and have no idea who they are (Sasha laughs).
S- But that’s a facial recognition thing, that’s different from dissociation. That’s one thing we joke about that happens to me too but it’s because I don’t remember it. You just don’t remember the name that goes with the face but when you talk to them, you remember talking to them, you just don’t remember their face and what that connects to. There’s gotta be a word for that, somebody will know and tell us (Nathan laughs).
S- What about the outside kids? What’s it like parenting? Is that scary for you, that we’re in the house with your children (Sasha laughs).
N- No, not even slightly. (Sasha what is that, having different ones of us interact with the children?
N-I think it’s exactly what I was saying before, there are times where I’m really playful with the children and times I’m really stern and times I think I’m doing a great job and times I think I’m doing a terrible job. The difference is all of those are me, and each one of those is someone different for you (both laugh). What other questions do you have for me?
S- Do you do different things with different people?
N- Not intentionally (Sasha laughs. I think my question is do you feel we adapt to you, or you adapt to us or is it a mix?). It’s a mix. If one of you is very serious and task oriented is out, they’re going to be much less open to watching a silly movie (Sasha, oh yeah because she doesn’t watch movies at all). But if the plan is to watch a silly movie, then one of you who isn’t into that might come out. Also, it’s funny when we watch a Star Wars movie or something, you’ll come out saying, “I think I’m just too dumb to understand movies like that.” When I think what it is, is multiple alters jostling for attention to watch the movie so really you haven’t seen the whole thing (Sasha, oh yeah, me and John fight for snacks) Yep, yep. (Sasha laughs)
S- Its true and I think that’s a big deal for us, it hasn’t always been the case in the past. But with you and where we are, we gel together so well it’s a miracle for lack of a better word. I think everyone’s relationship with you is very unique.
N- And I very intentionally love all of you on purpose. Early on, when I was first learning, I sent emails to different alters to make sure they knew I knew they were there, and I cared about them. There are times some of you like to make fun of other ones of you (Sasha laughs and says THAT’S ME). I never, ever play along because it feels like cheating (Sasha, you bust me every time I get in so much trouble). I love all of you I’m not taking sides (Sasha, am I the only one who gets in trouble?). You are not the only one who gets in trouble, but you are the only one who makes fun of the other ones (Sasha laughs), but I love all of you.
S- Everyone’s relationship is different though, so we don’t love you the same. I don’t mean by degree or amount, we enjoy different aspects of our relationship, its different with everybody. And I think part of the difference too is when you’re saying you love us, love for you isn’t just a word, it means service (Nathan, it’s a willingness to serve). So, you do stuff specific and active, you love in a verb, you’re not just saying I love you or I want attention. (N, I do feel the feeling of love for you but because I feel that I want to make you happy). Right, so you are super attentive and do things that show love in different ways. It’s not a toxic marriage that’s terrible and unsupportive (Nathan laughs) both people are lonely and its awful. You’re laughing but I know that because before we were married, I was in relationships where it was terrible, and I cried every night. So, to have found you is a big deal- don’t make me cry (Nathan laughs).
One of the things we’ve had to learn is when you say that it means something different than what others have said in the past. Because even that could be a trigger or something not to be believed. But because there’s congruence between your words and behavior, it increases safety for us so more of us can connect with you more than any experience from the past. That’s part of what makes it unique (Nathan, I’m glad I can offer that).
S-You’re also respectful when its hard, you give us time when we need to journal or need to be alone or when there’s a stupid bear on the bed (Nathan laughs). Could you please go buy a backpack this bear can fit in because I’m not taking it in public (both laugh). You’re so participatory!
N- I’m also very grateful that you are somebody who expresses your needs clearly, I don’t have to guess what you need. I really appreciate that, so I know how to meet your needs, I know when to leave you alone and I don’t take it personally. I know when you need time to do something, or when there’s an alter out with a particular task they need to get done, why would I take that personally? Its that person doing their job (Sasha, it’s amazing though).
S- I think part of why we can be so high functioning and work together so well, and I know it’s on, so I don’t mean this in a co-dependent way, part of what really helps is because of what you just said. A lot of what we can do is because our relationship is so strong, and you respect not only our boundaries but our freedom of expression and different ways we have needs and things to accomplish. You’ve never limited that or pressured us to do something different you let us be ourselves. That piece along brings so much healing and collaboration in and of itself as well as the st5rength and freedom to improve other things and learn other ways, does that make sense (Nathan, yeah)? I didn’t know this was going to turn into a love fest (Nathan laughs).
S- So we had our lovefest, that was fantastic (Sasha laughs) maybe I should edit that (Nathan, naughty!) (Sasha laughs hysterically). What I mean is those are some of the good things or how we’ve normalized it for ourselves. Tell me what is hard, difficult, challenging, or whatever word you want to use, politically correct or otherwise, about DID itself or living or being married to someone with DID or being married to me (Sasha laughs) safe zone, it’s all good.
N-I feel I’m not going to be very helpful here because honestly, I don’t have any hard things about being married to you (Sasha, so what’s hard about DID). I think all the hard parts about DID are what you experienced; I haven’t experienced any hard parts of DID. (Sasha, what do you mean the hard parts I’ve experienced)? Cause some of you are still coming to terms with the fact that you have DID, some are stressed about exploring the trauma that made it happen in the first place, all of you feel anxious about interacting with people. I’m fine (Both laugh) I don’t have any of those problems.
S- Tell me what you said last night because that blew my brains out-wait, I said it wrong again (Nathan, blew my mind) blew my mind.
N-You were saying “{why is it when I think I’m writing something, others think it’s something really sad?” Something like that? (Sasha, oh yeah yeah yeah) I said, part of it is just a dry sense of humor, part of it is your specific job on the team (Sasha, like me specifically) yes, you’re a protective covering (Sasha, whaaaat). You sort of have that level of joy and playfulness, but it doesn’t mean you aren’t having sad or scared feelings. So, when you’re writing something, sometimes those underlying feelings sneak out. So why you think you’re expressing something funny, you’re actually expressing more than just that (Sasha, I don’t know why I married him you guys. These are the therapy bombs he drops). I was dredged at the bottom of the marriage barrel, she’s like, well I guess I’ll take him (Both laugh).
N- What’s been hard about having DID and living with me?
S- That’s like a double dog dare. Mostly from my perspective its fighting for time. I just want to chill with you, but we have real life things. You have work, she has work, we have house things, she always has to do chores or help with homework. Theres outside kids to deal with and always inside kids to deal with. So not getting to do what I want, not getting the money I want just being on an allowance like I’m 12. those are practical things, I don’t feel like I’m in danger or its hard that way, just real life is hard sometimes and having to share so much. Also, besides the internal stuff, we’re a big family, we have lots of kids so it’s a lot to have to share that much.
N- How has it changed since opening up about DID?
S- I get to be a lot mouthier, I get to be a lot sassier (Nathan, its true) and so I feel more free. But there’s still boundaries so in some ways I get to be more myself, in other ways that means I have to learn more things because I’m making choices now just for me, not just to hide.
N- So before, you were constantly working to blend in.
S- Right. But at the same time, I feel less alone because there were times before when I got myself into messes and couldn’t ask for help so directly because it wouldn’t have made sense how I got into the mess in the first place. Not always something big and dramatic, even my bandanas, I really like wearing my bandanas, but it wasn’t consistent with everything else all the time.
N-For the record I probably wouldn’t have noticed anything if you had worn bandanas (Nathan laughs hysterically)
S- I’m just trying to give a neutral example, not trauma related. A lot of that was just about me. I didn’t know I could easily just do my own thing. When we married you, and you were good, that freaked me out, good freaked me out. The kind therapist freaks me out for the same reason- she’s chill, direct, honest, and keeps it safe and that freaks me out (Both laugh). Even though its good and you do the same thing to me, all this caring and concerning (Nathan, you’re just waiting for the other shoes to drop) riiiight! And so many shoes have dropped (Nathan, so many) (Both laugh). But not yours, not the therapist, not our friends, we’re okay and that trips me out sometimes so that a hard thing too.
S- I have to be careful here because I’m only allowed to speak for myself, that was one of the deals for the podcast, so I don’t want to tell her story. One of the things that changed everything obviously was when the parents died. We had worked so long to not just be safe from them or how to interact safely with them, but so much energy had gone into protecting ourselves that when they were legit dead, everything fell apart. Part of it was because it had been so hard so long and part of it was because were safe now. Part of it was her layers of guilt to be so relieved that they’re gone. So many layers. That’s when everything fell apart.
S- But its also when we chose you back. We had already chosen to get you married (both laugh) I mean we had already chosen to marry you. I think specifically after the car accident, I, me, I drove over to her house and wanted to run, and I wanted alcohol and to smoke and everything I was working hard not to do. I wanted to disappear. In my head I was thinking we could let the one that runs, run. We could’ve gotten out of there, but we didn’t, and it was the first time we didn’t. We stayed and didn’t wipe out everything and start over or run away or disappear. I called you and said I choose you I need you here right now because this is hard. And you came. And that was, at least for me, a turning point. Not just in my relationship with you but my capacity to be in a relationship with you. Does that make sense?
N- It does.
S-Also you make me treats (Nathan, I do). I don’t get to eat them (Nathan, sure you do!). Sometimes (Sasha laughs).
N-We have date nights (Sasha, yeah but he takes all the food) OOOhhm okay.
S- Not always and not all of it, but you know, it’s just funny.
N- It is hilarious.
S- Wow. That went a lot deeper than what I intended. You’re so slippery, this is why I hate therapy and being married you guys (Nathan laughs). Can you think of anything else?
S-Okay, say bye (Nathan, bye). Thanks for doing that, that was pretty brave.
(Outro)
[Break]
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