Transcript: Episode 15
Guest: Matt Pappas
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Today we’re talking with Matt from BeyondYourPast.com.
***Interview Begins***
Interviewer - font is not bold
Interviewee - font is bold
Thank you for agreeing to be on this, or let me talk to you and chat. I just appreciate what you’re doing. You have such a smooth process ‘cause you’ve got the IT background and you understand surviving anyway and then, you just have a unique approach and so that’s why I wanted to talk to you.
Well sure, I’m happy to.
Good. I’ll allow you to go ahead and introduce yourself first and we’ll kind of start there.
So yeah, so, so, my name is Matt Pappas and I am a anxiety coach and a survivor coach and of course I run BeyondYourPast.com and I also do um...a podcast. I do some blogging and I was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse between the ages of 5 and 10 and ugh, extreme bullying through middle school and part of highschool and ugh, survived a lot of other things in life and so I decided to start writing about those through, you know, a series of events that transpired that.
Going in a direction of being a survivor and wanting to make a career change out of a corporate job of being in an engineer and into a life of working with others who are also dealing with a past that involves trauma, a past that deals with extreme anxiety, people who feel stuck, isolated and alone, people who feel like they can’t reach their, their full potentials and their goals, and they feel like life is too difficult because of the overwhelming anxiety and um...other challenges in their life.
And so that’s kind of where, you know, my focus is. Of course, and it’s a combined effort with the coaching individually. Ugh, I do, um...group coaching as well. We do the podcast. We do the blogging. We also do daily calls for survivors of all different types of trauma who can show up every single day - 365 days a year for a 45 minute call with myself and a colleague and we go over strategies and tips and information and share screen shares and um… you know, do Q & A and cover a variety of topics around being a survivor.
So, it’s um...it’s something that I really enjoy doing and I’m glad I made the transition out, out of a job that, ugh, did serve me for quite a long time and I’m, and I’m very grateful, but now I’m in a new phase in my life. And really experiencing what I think my true calling is - even though it only took me forty something years to do it. So.
Oh my goodness. So, I already have so many questions.
So, first of all, the services that you’re offering and the things that you’re doing - there’s such a variety of support. Like, I feel like it just encompasses the person to the degree that they’re able to participate. Like, you’re just there and the things that are hardest about therapy or the things that are hardest about trying to function every day. Like, that’s really where this coaching piece comes in.
So, what is the difference between therapy and coaching? Could you educate us on that a little bit?
Well, yeah, absolutely, and, and I mean as far as kind of the multi-faceted kind of approach, I mean, there is no cookie-cutter, like method of healing. Nobody heals the same way. Some people relate better to different strategies than others and so by, by doing the blog and the podcast and the individual, the group coaching and all of these different types of things, and of course some of the courses that we’ll, we’ll be launching in 2019, we’re trying to reach as many as possible with, and as many ways as possible, so that those who, who, who, who heal better in groups, they have an opportunity. Those who are one on one, they have an opportunity. Those who would prefer to do courses, they have an opportunity.
So, it’s basically trying to reach as many as possible because nobody heals the same way. Everybody’s different. Everybody’s journey is different and so we want to do our best to, to make sure that, ugh, you know, we make these options available to as many as possible.
As far as the coaching and the therapy, um… you know, therapy and coaching are absolutely different. Um..some of the modalities can cross back and forth between each other. It just kind of depends on, on the type of coaching or the type of therapy, but, ugh coaches do not diagnose. We don’t treat mental health, you know, challenges, concerns, issues. We don’t prescribe medications...anything like that.
Coaches take you where you are right now in your life. Wherever that is and then we figure out a way to help you move forward to reach the goals that you want to reach in life. To change the things you want to change. To make the positive’s that you haven’t been able to for so long since you’ve been stuck.
So, we understand that there is a past involved that could be a very traumatic past - that could be a lot of anxiety, that could be a lot of ugh, relationship struggles. Whatever your particular challenge is, we help you move forward from where you are right now in an encouraging way, understanding that the past can, you know, can and does affect your present life and our goal is to help you move forward without being stuck in that past.
Whereas therapists of course will help you, um...oftentimes go back and understand the past and heal the past and figure out what happened and why it happened and, and give you strategies and informations to understand that and, and comprehend it and deal with the flashbacks and all the different types of things that come with working with a therapist, um...or other clinician.
And again, and so, there is a difference, um.. But um… a lot of the strategies that coaches implement, ugh, therapists also do and vice versa. So, it really just kind of depends on, on what you’re looking for, but there is a very, I guess a fine line I guess you would say.
When you were sharing your introduction, part of what you said I feel like really resonates with a lot of survivors where such and such happened to me at this age, but then after that, this also happened and then this also happened and this also happened and this also happened, and when I tried to grow up and be an adult, then also this happened and this happened and this happened. Why is that? Why does it get so complicated? Not just C-PTSD, but the trauma itself. Why does it seem to layer on top of everything?
Well, I mean trauma is absolutely cumulative - it builds on itself and when you survive something traumatic at a very young age, you become more vulnerable...more susceptible to different types of trauma because, you know, as we know and as we continue to learn, you know, know through discovery and science and research that trauma at a very young age affects your brain. It affects your body. It, it, it can cause all types of different mental health challenges. It can cause chronic pain - chronic illness. And so the more you go through, you know, once you experience that first traumatic event, it can, and not always, so you know, I, I, I don’t want to generalize and say always, but it can, you know, make you more open to different types of other trauma. Again, be it bullying or narcissistic abuse or emotional neglect or whatever the case is because you’re alr….your, your brain...your immune system, everything about your body has already been compromised because of the trauma. And now things can just kinda layer on, layer on, and you know, your self-esteem is shot. You have no self-confidence. You’re more vulnerable. You’re oftentimes very emotional and so all, all these things just kind of compound to unfortunately you know, make us, you know, more vulnerable or again susceptible to different types of trauma.
So, the idea of course, is that trauma builds on itself. You know, you know, perhaps you’re a survivor of, ugh...childhood sexual abuse and maybe again you have bullying and then, and then there was some emotional neglect and then maybe you were scapegoated and then there was some domestic violence. I mean, it could be any number of things that people can go through. And the idea is to at some point begin to break that cycle - begin to take your power back, understand what happened, ugh...you’ll understand that it wasn’t your fault. Start to implement coping skills and processes mem...excuse me...and process memories and flashbacks and begin to see yourself for the potential you have, not for being the victim for the rest of your life because of what happened to you.
So, it’s a process. It takes a long time, but the, you know, the, the alternative is, you know, staying stuck, staying miserable, staying isolated, staying alone, feeling like nobody cares. So, you know, once you start to work with a therapist and maybe you work with a coach and you start watching videos and read some books and do different types of, and, and, and, and experiment with different types of healing modalities and you start to get empowered and you start to see results and you’re like, “Yes, I feel so much better today!”
Or, you know, I had a really rough day, but I’m not, I’m not feeling as down as I used to and all these different types of things also build to help you feel empowered and encouraged to keep going. So, that when tough times do hit, even,even as an adult, you’re not stuck for as long as what you might have been before.
When you talk about breaking the cycle, you’re not just talking about between generations. You mean in the survivors…
In your own life.
Own lifetime.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I mean, when you are trying to heal from trauma, and, and you have all these unhealthy coping skills and the things that, that can literally physically or emotionally harm you, but we do it because that’s all we know. It’s, it, it, it, it, it’s the only way that we could help numb the pain or avoid the pain or stuff down the pain or you know, so we just, we, we do these things over and over because we haven’t been taught anything else. We haven’t been able to understand that there are alternatives.
So once you do, and you start to find healthy coping skills and new strategies and you reach out for a support system online and you start to put up healthy boundaries with toxic people in your life, and all the things that you learn by working with a therapist and working with a coach...then you start to see that, you know, I’m breaking the cycle. I’m not going to wake up every single day stuck, miserable, feeling like I can’t do anything, feeling like I have to settle, feeling like there’s no hope. I’m now waking up and saying, “You know what, maybe there is a possibility that something good might happen today”, or at least, “Something bad might not happen today.”
And, those, those are the kind of baby steps you take, that start to build. So, so you, so you can feel like you’re moving, in, in a new direction.
Oh my goodness. I love that. So, not just maybe something good will happen today, but let’s first just have a day where something bad does not happen.
Oh my god, yeah. I mean, you know, especially early on, when you start to work through, you know, a, a traumatic past. A good day can just be the absence of something bad not happening, and that’s okay. *laughs* And like, there’s no shame in that, whatsoever.
*Laughs*
Because so oftentimes, we, we, we wake up expecting the worst. We, we figure nothing good is gonna happen and you know, when something bad does happen, well of course that’s what happened to me, that’s what always happens to me, things never work out for me...all the stuff we tell ourselves, but sometimes when you go through a day and it was just kinda status quo, nothing really major happened, you know, in any event, well hey, that’s a win and that’s a start.
That’s really empowering. I’m going to have to write that down for myself just the way you said that.
Tell me what you know about dissociation and our podcast kind of focuses on DID specifically. But just dissociation in general. Then I also saw, um..you did a blog, ugh...about NLP and intentionally dissociating. So, just in general, what do you know about dissociation? What do you think about it? And, this intentional dissociat-whattt? *laughs* Tell me what’s going on.
*Laughs*
Well, yeah, I mean, there’s so much to talk about with, with dissociation. I mean, way more than, than you can cover in a single podcast.
Right.
But essentially, I mean, I realized that I dissociated when I was sitting in a therapist’s office years ago and, and, and she told me. She was like, “You were just dissociating.” And, I’m like, “What the hell’s that?”
You know, I mean literally, I, I, I had never even heard the term, and you know years ago. And, and, and so she explained to me and I realized so, so much of what my life has been spent in a dissociative state and that when I was in the midst of thee, of the abuse happening between 5 and 10 and that when the bullying happened and so many other events in my life, my, my brain would intentionally take me away and then, and, and not allow me to be fully present so that it would save me from, you know, from, from some of the pain.
Um..and, that really kind of put so much into perspective for me. I realized how much of how much of my life was spent dissociating and then I realized that there were different levels of dissociation and different types and of course, you mentioned ugh, DID and there’s um..different types of ugh, then you have, ugh dissociative amnesia and losing time and all these different things that you learn along the way as to what your brain actually does when you dissociate. Why it does it. Ways that you can stay fully present now as an adult to understand that, ugh, dissociation saved you. Especially like if you’re a trauma survivor. It, it absolutely saved your life - I believe that.
Now as an adult, sometimes it’s kind of a pain in the butt, right?
*Laughs*
Just because, you know, you are, you’re constantly zoning out, you’re not able to stay fully present, your mind’s elsewhere, you’re staring up at the ceiling, and you know all of the different things that we do when we dissociate depending on who you are.
And so, you know, understanding how mindfulness can help with, with dissociation. But, also understanding dissociation can be a good thing, because it allows you to kind of go to a different place intentionally. And just kind of zone out and think about nothing, and, and, and give your brain a break, and give your mind a rest. And so, that’s a different form of dissociation. I’ve written a lot about my own journey of dissociation on my blog, um...in terms of just like what it feels like and how much of a struggle it is now versus, you know, what, what happened, you know, during the times of trauma.
And so again, like there’s so much to talk about. Like, like, that’s kind of a broad overview and then you mentioned about an NLP. Well, when we talk about an ugh, intentionally dissociating, which is different. It’s a different form than the clinical that you and I are talking about and that what Kathy discussed and so when you intentionally dissociate, you’re trying to get a broad level perspective of a, of a situation, right?
So, you’re not looking at a situation from a first person point of view. Like, you’re not in the middle of it. You’re not feeling it. You’re not living in real time. You’re not in that emotional state.
You intentionally pull yourself out. Like, I mean, in, in your mind, you are intentionally removing yourself from a particular set of events or a circumstance and you are literally seeing yourself go through that event. Which allows you to get a objective, ugh perspective, and, and, and see what’s really going on rather than what the emotional mind...what the dissociation is trying to tell you is actually going on.
So, it’s a way to get, to kind of show yourself some compassion, some perspective. To get an idea of what it feels like to be you going through that, you know, emotional states and going through that traumatic event. Whatever that, you know, the, the situation is. And this gives you the opportunity to see what’s really happening so you can say, “You know what, I shouldn’t beat myself up so much. I shouldn’t judge myself so much. I shouldn’t jump to conclusions because this is...you know...because...this, this situation is very difficult and I have to work my way through it.”
And so, when you intentionally dissociate, you, you remove yourself and look at yourself from, you know, across the room or from down a hill or outside a window or a doorway and see what’s going on so you can give yourself more compassion and a more objective option to, you know, deal with whatever is happening.
Can you explain what NLP is, in case someone doesn’t know?
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming and it literally teaches you to understand the language of the brain and it, it uses strategies and, and mindsets and coping skills and information to help you in any event in life. I mean business coaches use it, trauma coaches use it. You can use it against, you know, in your fight against anxiety. It’s used in relationship coaching.
It’s literally retraining your mind to see things from a, from a different point of view - to show yourself more compassion, more objectivity, more kindness. To be able to understand that the way that you see something is different than the way that somebody else might see it. And that the way that we look at ourselves, our life, our circumstances, the people around us, our job, our kids, our dog, everything...the way that you look at it has a profound effect on your very well being, your life, your personality, the way you approach challenges, everything.
So, it teaches you to understand how the brain works so you can reformulate and reframe old, negative coping skills, negative thoughts, old mindsets and is something that can serve you. Something that can be understanding and compassionate and empowering, rather than negative and disempowering and you know, all those types of things.
Is there anything in general that we need to understand about the brain and trauma?
The biggest thing to understand about the brain and trauma is that really, no matter, no matter what type of trauma it is, your brain is affected literally from the first time it happens and, and, and, and in terms of you know, complex trauma where, there are a series of events that happen over and over and over repeatedly, perhaps over weeks, months, years, whatever the case is.
You know? Whether it’s something that is abuse-related or, or perhaps there is repeated trauma from someone who is in the military or there’s somebody who lives through repeated natural disasters.
All those different types of things, you know, all encompass different types of trauma and so they, really the main thing is to understand that the brain is, is affected. Your thought process, your ability to cope, your ability to cognitively process anything, to think, to, to, to deal with daily life is compromised when there’s trauma.
So, the idea here is that because that happens, there has to be a way to fix it. And for a long time we always thought that, wow, you know your brain is damaged and that was the end of it and you were kind of screwed. Well, we know now and we have known now for the last what, several decades, that neuroplasticity allows us to retrain the brain to develop new pathways, create new pathways, new coping skills, and literally retrain the brain to deal with situations differently. To default to a new healthy coping strategy to something empowering, to something completely different than what you’ve known.
And so, you know, allowing those old, negative pathways, as we like to call them, or I guess, as I like to call them. The old, negative pathways, to kind of just fall by the wayside and get worn over with dirt and grass and stones and you know, eventually nobody goes there anymore. And your default skill is something empowering and healthy and encouraging and, and, and, and understanding and so that’s really the hope that...and, you know, that, the foundation of healing from trauma is that you can heal your brain and change your brain and that and your mind and that’s what really makes healing from any kind of trauma possible. Because if you couldn’t do that, you know, you would just be stuck forever in the state that you are in.
Understanding those things really offers some hope because even someone who’s been through long term trauma and repeated patterns of trauma, there’s still time to heal even their brain itself.
Oh my goodness, yeah.
I mean, there are people I know. Colleagues of mine, ugh, people who, who I interact with online, people I’ve seen at conferences and people who are in their 60’s, their 70’s, are, are going through and learning to retrain their mind and, and healing from trauma. And, and, and understanding that, ugh, you know, something that affected them maybe 50 years ago, has been, has been a part of their life for all this time and they’re finally able to take the steps to work through and process memories and heal that trauma.
So yeah, it doesn’t matter how old you are. I mean, you, ugh, you know from, from what I...the stats that I know of, um..because that at oftentimes, and again, you know, I never say always here, but oftentimes, um, men don’t begin to even think about processing trauma until their 40’s and women in their 30’s.
So, you know, you’re living decades with all kinds of stuff that you have no idea is, is still affecting you. I mean, when I was in my 20’s, well my late teens and in my 20’s and early 30’s, I didn’t think that being bullied in highschool 15, 20 years ago even made a difference. I did not, I had no clue that being um, abused by a teenager up the street between five and ten was going to affect my self-confidence, my self-esteem, cause me to have problems with food and, you know, and, and my weight and all these different things.
And so I had, I had no idea that any of this was, was all together. I thought I was just screwed and broken and busted. And so once I started to realize that, hey all this makes sense. You know? Trauma affects my brain and this is where all these things come from. Okay, now I’ve got a plan. Now I understand it. What can I do to heal it?
That’s so powerful.
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the approach, the approach I take. Um...it really is, I don’t want to be doing everything that I did for the last 30 years that, that really landed me nowhere good. You know?
I mean and, and that’s not to say that my life didn’t have good times. I mean, you know? I have three amazing kids. I have been able to do things. I had a job, as I said before in corporate, you know, as, as an engineer that served me for a long time. So, there were good things about my life. But, by and large, the struggles that nobody ever saw, the things that I dealt with internally, that I, that I never shared, for all that time. Like, I don’t want to go back to that. Like, who wants to go back to that kind of misery?
So, I use that as an empowering way to say I don’t want to go back to the way that I was before. How can I move forward? How can I work to, to heal this stuff so I can feel more in control. I can live my life differently and I can see the potential rather than dreading, um, you know, what, what’s about to come throughout the day, or the next year or the next, you know, ten years.
So, how does someone know when they’re ready? Like, doing this kind of work can be so intense. It can be so overwhelming, and sometimes it can be worse before it gets better and it’s just hard. How does someone know when they’re ready to go ahead and try?
Well, I think, and, this, it, it, it, it’s a tough question because nobody, like, the way that I knew I was ready was not the way that somebody else knew they were ready. Sometimes, you just kind of happen into it.
Like, for me, I sought out to help. Well, excuse me, when I sought out the help of a therapist, right? I went to her because I was just coming off a divorce and I was trying to work through my own relationship challenges. And you know, why does this keep happening to me? Why am I, why, why do I keep, you know, having all these things that, you know, ugh, ugh, occur in my life?
And so I was in there for more of a like relationship type thing. Well, it came out about after 6 months that I was a trauma survivor and then we started going down that road. So, it kind of happened in a way that I never saw coming, because I reached out for something totally different. Um.. ugh, trauma affects your life. Again, relationships, your personality, your, your, I mean, your, your job, your kids, your hobbies, everything.
So, sometimes it’s a matter of you reaching out for help in another way and then in, in working it, it organically comes out over time. That maybe you’re ready to start dealing with this stuff. But, I think more often than not, you’re just sick and tired of being miserable. You’re tired of the status quo. You’re tired of waking up every day dreading what’s coming. You’re tired of not having, you know, being able to set any goals, to stick with anything. You’re tired of anxiety, you know, being so much of a, of a part of your life. You’re tired of attracting, you know, the wrong type of people. You’re tired of not being able to put up healthy boundaries. You’re just like *laughs* the old adage, you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired and something has to give.
You know, as you mentioned, trauma healing, it’s a lot of work. It is a ton of work, but the benefits so far outweigh, you know, the struggles. Because, again, the, the alternative is being who you are for the rest of your life. So, why not consider, like, you know what? I’m tired of this. I need to make a change. Something has got to give. Let me try this and see what happens and if you dip your toe in the pool, so to speak, and just say, “Hey, maybe let’s go explore this a little bit.” With the understanding that once you dive into it, there’s, there’s going to be a lot of stuff to go through and it’s going to be hard and difficult and you’re going to spend a lot of times being angry and afraid and, and, and upset and sad and all, all different types of emotions, but getting this stuff out of your head and into the open, so it’s not so, just so stuck in there. Kind of going around, like a hamster in your head - over and over and over. Replaying all these negative mindsets, and all these ugh, traumatic events and, and everything in your life that you want to change. Replaying that, sending it in a new direction so now, all that stuff is out in the open. It’s out, you know, speaking with therapist. It’s out in a blog. It’s out in a journal. Maybe you do art therapy, whatever it is that you do, to get this stuff out. So you can process it and then it doesn’t seem like it’s so strong anymore. It doesn’t seem like it has such a grip on you anymore.
So, it’s really, again, eh, everybody’s different, but in my experience. Some, some people just kind of happen into it, like I did. And other times you say, “You know what, I am so damn sick of living my life this way. Something’s gotta change.” And then understand, that nobody can do it for you. Like, nobody. I can’t heal for you. A therapist can’t heal for you. A coach can’t heal for you. A psychologist or whatever. Nobody can actually heal for you. You have to put in the hard work. You have to put in the effort, but the, the helping professionals are there to give you guidance, to give you insight, to give you perspective, to give you tools. But, ultimately it’s up to us to take the reigns for our own healing and, and work our way through it one step at a time, little by little, and then understand that the outcome is worth all of the pain, and, and the struggle as you go through it.
One of the struggles in the beginning is just finding a good therapist.
Mm hmm.
When someone has been through all of these things and in this pattern of unhealthy interactions or toxic people around them, it’s hard to even do that. And, I feel like so many of us go through several tries of finding a therapist before you do. How does a person sort through some of that just to get to a good therapist so they can start some of that work?
Well, you’re right. I mean, finding a good therapist, a good coach, a good helping professional is difficult, because there are, there are tons out there. And they’re of all different types and all different walks of life and everything so the idea is, of course, if we’re talking about trauma here, in my opinion, you’ll always want to find someone who is, ugh, trauma informed - somebody who understands what it means to be a survivor, to go through all the, all the, different types of things that survivors go through.
And so, I’m, I’m understanding what trauma is and how it affects your daily life. So, trauma informed therapists are key when you are trying to work through all of these different types of struggles.
So, really, unfortunately, there’s no tried and true method because I might be working, you know, I might be able to recommend a half a dozen really amazing, awesome therapists, who are trauma informed and they, and there and, and, and they specialize in you know, all different types, art therapy and EMDR and, and you know, varying, and you know, ugh and CBT and DBT and ugh, and, and IFS and all the different things. But, if you don’t have a rapport with that therapist, if you don’t relate to them, if you’re not comfortable, it doesn’t matter how good they are.
It doesn’t mean that that therapist is necessarily a bad choice. It just means that it’s not the right choice for you. So, it takes a lot of research. You might have to go on a bunch of interviews with a therapist and yes, you actually should interview your therapist. Bring along questions. Ask them if they’re trauma informed. Ask them about their experience. Ask them about their credentials. Reach out to friends and trusted people online who, who, who have experience, you know, with working through trauma and ask them who they recommend.
And, you know, you have to do your homework and there’s no really easy way to do it.
Um...for me, I kind of fortunately lucked into, literally, kind of fell into a, a trauma informed therapist, um, when I was seeking out help while I was still at my corporate job and I used um, an employee, ugh, program to help find myself a therapist and like, I found a great one on the first try, but that rarely happens.
That’s amazing.
Doesn’t happen very often.
Yeah, so I was extremely lucky, but um...you know, it, there, it just, I hear story after story after story of people who, who I’ve worked with, you know, trying, you know, they’ve tried half a dozen different ones, until they found the right one. So, it can be frustrating. It can be, it, it can make you feel like you want to give up, but you know, when you find that right helping professional that you click with, that understands with, that you feel safe with, that has all the credentials that you feel are important, that, that, that really um, makes you feel comfortable and safe in their office. Or, you know then, that’s when all the hard work, again, pays off. But, it’s just part of this healing thing, this healing journey, healing your stuff, whatever you want to call it. Part of that is trying to find the helping professional that’s just right for you.
And what about clinicians? What do you think they need to know about survivors that they’re not gonna learn from a book or in school?
Well, and that’s the thing, I mean, I think, in my humble opinion, it all comes from experience. It all comes from, from, from learning about what a survivor does by talking with them, by reading about them, by watching videos of people who are sharing their story, understanding the unique struggles that comes with being, um...ugh..you know.. Ugh...a survivor of trauma. You know, it’s not something you can just get over. You can’t just snap your fingers and snap out of it. You can’t just tell somebody that, “Hey, that, that happened 20 years ago, get over it now. It doesn’t bother you anymore.”
Like, those, those types of things are incredibly damaging to a survivor. Um...because it’s so invalidating. So, it’s really just kinda comes with, I think, understanding what a survivor is. A lot of trauma informed clinicians are survivors themselves to some degree, so they know what it feels like. So, I feel like real worl...real world, there we go, experience, can, can play a big part in it. But, it’s really just having that, that compassion and that under, understanding, and, and, and the knowledge that certain types of approaches work with survivors and certain types don’t. And, you know, it’s really, again, I think, life experience plays a big part of it, but just you know, joining...I know some clinicians who regularly will join survivor chats and watch videos of, of people who are sharing their struggles every single day to get an understanding of what it, of what it means to wake up every day and struggle so they can feel more compassionate and, and, and that provide programs to people who struggle in the way they see.
So, ugh, um..you know, it’s really just, again, there’s only so much you can learn when you are getting your classes and, and your degrees and your licenses. A lot of it is just, unfortunately, experience.
And what about from your perspective, how would you describe the difference between what it was like to wake up as you before you learned all this and what it’s like to wake up as you now that you’ve been empowered by all this?
Well, I used to wake up every day anticipating the worst, dreading the worst. You know, nothing good’s gonna happen today. All these bad things always happen to me. Why do I always do this? Living in extremes. Catastrophizing everything. Living in a very black and white existence to where I’m living on one side or the other and, and there’s no happy medium, there’s no middle ground. I’m either completely miserable or I’m completely happy. And if I’m not one of those two, I have no idea what I am, so I have to default to one. So, I would default to being miserable all the time because it’s what I knew.
So, I would expect bad things to happen and I would blame myself when, when there were tough times. I, I, I owned everything that even wasn’t my stuff to own. Um...I, I was you know, an extreme people pleaser. I was all the just many different things, but, in a nutshell, I woke up everyday with no ex...expectation of things ever getting any better. I was just trying to live one day to the next. One hour to the next, month to month. Trying, trying to survive. Trying to hide all my pain so I didn’t burden other people.
Um...you know, and just put on a happy face and put on a mask and just live my life like, like nothing’s wrong. Ugh, you know, happy go lucky Matt. And everybody loves Matt. He’s great. He’s kind. He’s helpful. He loves football. He loves music. You know, all the things that I kind of built for myself up around. Like, I created a life or a personality for myself that I wanted people to see. Well now, it’s a more genuine, authentic existence.
You know, believe me, I still struggle. You know, and, and anybody who’s a survivor tells you that they don’t struggle anymore, at all ever, I would probably question that to some degree. Because, everybody struggles. It doesn’t matter how, how long you’ve been in this. It doesn’t matter what kind of cooking skills you have, how long you’ve been a therapist or a coach or how long you’ve been at this healing journey in your own personal life.
You’re still gonna struggle. Life is still going to throw you curveballs. You're still gonna have memories pop up - things and events that trigger you. Just, you know, ugh ough decisions, um..loss of family members and loved ones and pets and just tragedies and traumas that happen in your life. But, the idea is, that you’re no longer dealing with those events in, in an unhealthy way so that you are constantly blaming yourself, beating yourself up. Um.. you know, spiraling down into depression and using unhealthy coping strategies. You’re now saying, “Okay, I need to process this emotion. I need to feel this. I need to figure out where that’s coming from. Acknowledge it and then do some self care and then start to pull myself out of it in, in a, in a time that feels right to me.”
It’s a, it, it, it’s a total shift in how you approach life and approach the challenges that, that you know, still come about.
I think that, that, ugh, you left me a little bit speechless on the part where you were talking about how you’re more genuine now because I feel like your authenticity is part of what draws people to you and makes your support and the things that you write about so real for survivors. So, that was interesting to me. Just thank you for being vulnerable there.
Um, I guess my last question specifically for you is, what are three things that a survivor could do right now to change that default, even a little bit?
Well, I think one of the first things is reach out for the support that’s available online. I mean, there are countless survivor chats, blogs, Facebook groups, Twitter Chats. I mean, ugh, I, all kinds of people sharing all kinds of stories from all walks of life. And the survivor community, you know, I mean, we, we all have, have probably heard the status of 1 in 4 girls or, or 1 in 6 boys are gonna be um...traumatized in some way before their 18th birthday.
So, that means there are millions of people out there who are just trying to go through the same things that you are. And so, reach out online for all of the free resources, the videos, the books, the chats. I mean, the survivor community is one of the most accepting, and compassionate, and empowering and validating groups of people you’ll ever meet. And…
I would agree with that. That’s so true.
It is. I mean, that’s what really jump started my journey was, I went on Google one day and googled ‘Survivor Chat’ I think it was and I found Twitter chats and books and videos and all kinds of stuff and that’s what really kind of got me going in the direction of reaching out for help. So, utilize the free resources that are, that, that are available on your computer, on your phone, at a computer in a library, wherever.
Because, you, you know there’s so much out there, so much information, ugh, that, that, that, that people are putting out now every day and so that’s, that, that, that’s one big thing.
Another thing is, understand that, you know, a lot of what you struggle with right now in life as an adult is a result of that trauma in the past and that trauma wasn’t your fault, right?
So, no matter what type of unhealthy coping skill or struggles you have. Whatever it is in your life, a lot of that we’re learning more and more, can be, can be traced back to childhood trauma. And so, you know, do some research on, on your own behalf.
You know, why do I feel this way? How is trauma related to this illness? How, how does, how does chronic pain related to that, ugh, you know, that past trauma. Like, do some research on your own and kinda get an idea of what you’re up against so you have, so, so, so because one thing we always say. Or, one thing I always like to say is that if you can put a name to something, a label to something, if you can identify something, it doesn’t seem as overbearing, right? Because, you figure somebody else went through it because they wrote about it.
So, kind of getting out of your own head and out of this mentality that you are in this alone is huge and, and doing, doing a little research goes a long way to help you feel like you’re more in, in control and that you can kind of put a plan in place of some, of some things that you can work on in your own life. Um..again, something free. Go online and do some research as to why you feel certain ways and, and strategies to help me feel better because this and all that kinda stuff. You’ll find a myriad of, of, of ugh resources available.
And so ugh, again, you know, um, reach out to the survivor chats. Do some research on your own and then I think, one of the, one of the other things, there’s so many more, and one of the other things is don’t be afraid to dip your toe in the water and consider the possibility that reaching out for help might be a good idea.
Right? Because like, I mean, even know, with all of the, all of the ugh, attention given to working with therapists and you know, the #MeToo movement and, and you know sharing your story. It’s still scary to come out and share your story with somebody because you’re gonna feel judged. You don’t know who you’re going to hurt. You might get shame and backlash from your family or friends, your coworkers. So, you know, you don’t necessarily always, you’re not always able to just say, “Okay, I feel miserable. I’m going to go get help.”
And so, if you can jump from A to B like that, hey more power to you. But if you can’t, then sit down and say, “Okay, what would it be like to start to try to take steps to feel better? Like, what would it feel like to not wake up miserable everyday? What would it feel like to reach out for help and get this stuff out of my head to somebody who’s safe and help me make sense of it?”
And so, allow yourself to imagine the possibility of reaching out for help and what that would feel like is...ugh, you know a month from now, 6 months from now, 5 years from now. How much different life might be if you reached out and made a call to a therapist or a coach. Um.. you know somebody who can help you make sense of everything.
And by taking those baby steps, it doesn’t seem quite so overwhelming.
Thank you for offering some hope.
I love it. That’s, you know, that’s, I mean, I spent so much, so much of my life not having hope that I, I love giving people hope now and you know because hope is one of the biggest things about being a trauma survivor. If we don’t have hope, then there’s no point. So, we have to have hope.
Yes, yeah, yeah, the original website that started everything is called Surviving My Past. If you google it, you’ll find it. And I wrote a book, ugh, um, called ‘Surviving Grief’ which takes you through the stages of grief as a trauma survivor. You know, grieving your, your, your lost childhood, your lost innocence, grieving the past, grieving things from the perspective of being a survivor, um...is something that I had to work through on my own and I continue to work through. So, it’s available for free. You can just go to that website and download it. Just google umm… Surviving My Past and then you’ll see the link right there and at the top and at the side of the page, you can download a free copy. And you can read it um...you know, and just, it, it’s a very easy read. It’s not a very long book, but it just, it takes you through the stages and the understanding that working through the grieving process, whether you’re grieving a loved one, a pet, grieving your innocence, and your past, or whatever it is, it’s not a linear process.
You don’t go, step 1, step 2, step 3, step 4, 5, 6 and you’re done. Like, it’s 1, 2, 5, 4, 3, 1. Like, you’re going back and forth and at a, at a very different pace for each ugh, for each situation that you grieve. So, it kind of just helps you make sense about it and understand that it’s important and necessary to go through that grieving process.
I had never thought of that before in context of applying grief to that lost childhood.
And the childhood that you never had because you were the victim of some type of abuse. Yeah, that’s super duper important and it’s, it’s very difficult and it’s something that you, you work through with, with a professional on, but this book kind of gives you some ideas of my experience with it.
Thank you so much!
It’s my pleasure. Any time.
Is there anything else that you want to share?
Well, I think it’s really just, um...were, were all of us on this planet who are survivors who are here just trying to get through the day, to make sense of our life, to make changes in, in the areas that we want to, you know improve on. Or, or, or just see a different mindset with, and so, really just don’t be afraid to take some, some, some small baby steps in a different direction. You know, the status quo of feeling familiar of, of, of, something that feels familiar and safe is not always something that is healthy for you. So, you know, be okay with a possibility of dipping your toe in the water or reaching out for help and just seeing what that feels like and you might just see it’s pretty empowering. And, and, you know, the difference that it can make in your life can be truly something that is remarkable.
So, ugh, you know, if you ever have any questions or if you want to learn more about the coaching and, and all that stuff, you can just head over to ugh, BeyondYourPast.com. That, that’s my coaching website. There’s links to the podcast. There’s links to the daily calls. There’s links to the books. There’s all kinds of stuff, so check it out.
Thank you so much!
My pleasure. Any time.
Thank you for joining us with System Speak - a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. You can listen to the Podcast on Spotify, Google Play and iTunes or follow along on our website - www.systemspeak.org. Thanks for listening.