Transcript: Episode 326
326. Phase One Final Episode: Five Year Farewell
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
[Note: Comments from System Speak Community members are in italics]
So it's the very end of the year and we're closing out five years of System Speak. And five years of sharing with you our journey, and the last few have been rough. And so we just wanted to go back through everything we've learned and sort of review some of our favorite moments. And we asked on the Community: “What is your favorite System Speak podcast episode and why do you love it so much?”
Now, of course Kim was the first one to reply to this, because Kim is Kim and she's just hanging out there loving everybody, taking care of everybody. And I am so glad that Kim is in the world. Kim also, by the way, told us we need to stop talking about our sexuality on the podcast. [Laugh] But here's the thing, we're not trying to be inappropriate or share too much information, it's just a really big deal for survivors. And so I'm sorry that sometimes it's TMI, and thank you for good friends like Kim who call you out and be like, “Nope, you crossed the line.” [Laughter] But that's why. So if you want to hear more about relationship stuff, even if not sex, exactly, you can hear us talk at Healing Together conference coming up, sponsored by Infinite Mind. And I think that is in February. So the husband and I are supposed to present there. So please come to Healing Together virtually or otherwise. I don't even know how it's happening now, or what Omicron is doing to us, or how all of that's gonna unfold. But we are speaking at the conference, so you can hear us there.
Anyway, Kim says: The Three Emmas is my favorite episode. I listened with my eyes closed, and I was able to see them operating individually but from the same foundation. It was extremely helpful for me since I was still in the early stages of trying to understand DID. Thank you Kim for sharing and for being a good friend with boundaries. [Laughter]
Lisa says: My favorite episode was Geometry. That's when you talked about how we can't avoid the pain. This episode helped me see I need to look, feel and say, and this episode helped me see how my healing and positive actions today can help the versions of me stuck in the past, even as a way of being there for myself. I don't know how to explain it but pieces of me viscerally responded with joy when time travel was explained in this way. I felt understood that maybe Self could heal parts when others could not. And math used as a proof to connect with safe people? Mind blown, #hopeful. But also the Polyvagal Theory episode also changed my life. So I have to say that NerdTown may be my favorite with the PPWC Keynote. All of them. All of them are my favorites. [Laughter] Thank you Lisa. We so much appreciate your support, and you certainly have been such a big piece not just in our lives, but in keeping the podcast online and in supporting us in the Community. And we are so so grateful. We could not have done this without you.
Chellorraine said: Oh my gosh, so many episodes. But my favorite was maybe Ovaries. As I've been trying to process my own loss of a therapist that I had to leave, it was really powerful and resonated so deeply with the sense of strength inside myself in saying goodbye and grieving that loss. “See what there is to see, feel what there is to feel, and choose to live.” Endquote. Oh my goodness. You know, we got that from Christine Forner. She's the one who taught us to see what there is to see and feel what there is to feel. And it's never been pleasant. So basically we blame her for all of our problems. No, I’m kidding. [Laughter]
Crystals said: It's hard to choose our favorite episode, because how do we ever choose? Maybe the one when Sasha comes back from therapy after the first EMDR. She talks with the husband and the whole thing is told in such an amazing hilarious true to Sasha form. I'm sorry, I don't know where it is or what it's called. And then Kim agreed that that episode was hilarious. That's funny. So, I remember two things. One that we talked about it, and then two, that we talked about it again. And so, that was actually helpful for us because we got different perspectives of this same event. And I think that's one of the first times we actually listen to each other in that way.
Carolyn shared: So far my favorite episode is Snow Time, Snack Time. John is so unguarded and authentic. So many really helpful episodes, but this one was just sweet in a non smarmy way. I don't know what ”smarmy” means, but it is my new favorite word. Thank you Carolyn for a new word. She said: I have been listening from back to middle and start to middle. I also liked his words about waking up and landing in the pants that fit him. Oh my goodness, what? That when he was adjusting to waking up after a long time and having moved and having animals. Oh, my goodness, do you know that we are just heartbroken about the animals. I can't even talk about what we've been through since we moved and how hard things have been. Because things have always been hard. So I feel like complaining when I just keep talking about it or whatever. And so then we just shut down, because as our friend says, “freeze is my favorite.” We're good at dissociating. So we just turn it off because it hurts so much.
Nestor System said: I can't choose just one! Totally agree with you Nestor System. And also, Nestor System are the ones who are working so hard on our Resources pages. Have you all check that out on the website? There are so many resources that have been added, and they are all Google Spreadsheets. So feel free to take someone off or add someone as needed. And if you have other recommendations or resources to add, just let the Nestor System know in the community. They've worked so hard on it.
Rose shared: It is definitely hard to choose. But the timeframe that I loved and admired most was all of 2020. Oh. That will make me cry. For strength, courage and raw authenticity. The vulnerability somehow makes others feel less alone. Thank you. We were cheerleaders. Oh, my goodness Rose. Thank you so much.
Do you know what's amazing about this? Having a thread-. And I'm sharing these with permission. But having a thread that I can read and share, kind of like an emails podcast but this is from the Community, except now I know these people. So when I see their names, I also see their faces. And there is something that is happening inside me just like neurologically or sensory wise or something, like my heart is so full. Like, there are not words to tell you how much I love these people, and how meaningful it is to me even just seeing their names and reading their words and hearing their hearts. Because we have shared so much for the last six months. We have been in the Community doing weekly groups. Sometimes there are more than one group per week. Sometimes we've missed groups because of struggles or outside obligations. Like, all of us have been through this together. But it has been a powerful, life-changing experience.
Recently, we shared that it was like we went into the pandemic having tried out friendship for the first time. And it was so messy, and there was no repair to everything that was messy. And because it was such a struggle, and there was just left hanging there. There was no closure, there was no repair, there was no healing, it was nothing like what we were told it was gonna be like. That it was so devastating that we went into the pandemic's so alone, and struggling with only a few like even contacts to try to cope with or connect with or keep learning with. And it was the most-. This is what she's talking about with 2020. It was the most painful time of my entire life. And you guys, those are powerful words because we have been through some trauma. [Laughter] Like the rest of you were traumagenic DID. Like, it's all about that trauma and the relational devastation that comes when you experience trauma. And for us the pandemic was so symbolic of that. And I have never hurt so much in my entire life or have been so devastated, is what happened. Like we, I, I'm not trying to trigger people and I'm not going into details right now, but I'm telling you we barely made it out of that alive. And it was absolutely hands down the worst experience of our life. And yet, because we were in the pandemic, we had nowhere to run away to. Not even for work as an excuse. And because everyone disappeared in our lives, like there was no one even to fight it out with, to try to work it out with, to try to repair. I mean, like fight even in healthy ways. Like there was nothing. But because we were alone and single parenting the six children, which itself was epic and a trauma, and I can't even talk about that right now. But we could not escape it. There was no shutting down either. And so by default, for the first time in our lives, we were forced to sit there and feel our feelings, learn to tolerate them, and to own them in every way, including recognizing how meaningful it was, and what we were getting out of it, and why it's so important to receive that information from ourselves. And it was the most powerful experience.
But coming out of the pandemic, our life is so full of these people. And when I see their names, I am flooded with goodness in a way I never knew I would experience. And I'm so glad I stopped waiting for that in toxic places. Because it wasn't coming in toxic places. But it came here. And this was my world. And these were my people. And these were my tribe. And I finally understand what that is all about. And so feeling their words, not just reading their words, is everything. It's everything to me. And there will be people listening to this who recognize some of these usernames—I'm only seeing usernames—and it will happen to them to where they recognize these people, or understand these people, or remember these people. We know each other, you guys, we know each other in a way we have never let anyone know us before. It has been such a powerful and positive and healing experience. I can't even tell you. And that's why I really wanted to close out System Speak with this, this phase of our life, this chunk of these five years, and just say that I love you with my whole heart. And I love you with my whole being and I am so so grateful that we were on this journey together. Okay, now before I get all sappy I'm gonna read some more.
And speaking of sappy, Jules is next. They said: It's so hard to choose one. But I listened to Cascade of Defense three times, so that must count for something. But I love them all. Oh my goodness. She's talking about the cascade of defense episode, which is one of the podcast episodes with Christine Forner, who is amazing and I'm so grateful she's been so willing to come on a couple times and answer my questions. I have had to watch her presentations and listen to her episodes over and over and over again as well, because it is so jam packed full of information that I just have to keep watching it to let it process. And it is fantastic. And she is an advocate for the community, and she has given so much of her time and her being. And I am so grateful for her.
Bree shares: I am still trying to capture all of the content of Mother Hunger. And we've listened probably 10 times. It was a pivotal moment for us, hearing that one. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, so many people agreed with this. And the Mother Hunger lady came on twice. And so there are two episodes if you haven't heard the Mother Hunger episodes.
Myco says: So many faves, but it has to be Christine Forner’s Cascade of Defense episode. We loved it so much we listened to it repeatedly, took notes and sent it to our therapists to listen to. Yes, this is what I'm talking about. Right? There's so much information. This is one of the moments, even talking about the pandemic experience, or what our experience was. Talking about 2020, the cascade of defense, part of the reason that we shared that on the podcast was because we heard her talk about this in a presentation and it saved our lives. Like I am not kidding. This was a turning point for us between fighting for our lives through this devastating loss and all of the havoc that was wrecked in our lives because of it. Like it was awful. It was awful. And so devastating. There are not words to explain how bad this was and the despair that we felt from that experience. And not just the rupture itself, but the helplessness and not being able to repair it. And the gaslighting for being shamed for feeling what we did about it. Like, it was so awful. And it was the Cascade of Defense episode that saved us. She's not our therapist. She's our friend, or colleague. But that presentation and understanding that what I was experiencing and what I was struggling with was because of what trauma has done to my brain, and not because I am a failure at friendship, or a failure at therapy, or a failure in life. That this was not something I could just pray my way out of, or try hard enough my way out of, or toxic positivity my way out of. Like, Cascade of Defense, that episode or the information she shares in it is part of what saved our life. 100%. It changed everything.
Kai shares: I can't remember the title right now, but the series where an old friend came on the podcast to talk about experiences with a therapist and foster care growing up. It was so validating to hear an outside perspective like that and to hear other people who have gone through similar experiences. Oh my goodness, they are talking about the English Teacher series. So here's what happened. When we went through all of this with our therapist, one of the things that we did was go back to someone in our past who had actually been through a therapy trauma with us when we were very, very young. Like they have their own story, but it overlapped because we shared a therapist, and because both of us were living with that therapist. Ultimately, in the end of things, this person sued that therapist and reported them to the board. I was asked by the board at the time to also testify in this case, because I had also lived in the home and they had documentation of that. We were very young, like 17, and so when we got called to testify we of course were like, “No. I am out of here.” And like, we left this state and didn't respond to anyone. We didn't respond to the English teacher. She's called the English teacher because she was our brother's English teacher like in junior high. So she's like one of three people who go all the way back to our adolescence, right? Which is huge in our life when there's like no one who has stayed. And so we left the state. We did not respond to the English teacher, we did not respond to the therapist, and we did not respond to this state. We were like, “We don't want to be involved in this.” All we know is danger, danger, danger, Will Robinson. Like, get out of there. And so we stayed away from this and stayed out of it. But it meant we lost our friend and we lost our therapist.
So of course when all of this history is repeating later and we're learning about reenactments. And now we've lost our friends and we've lost our therapist, because we can't keep our therapist if we want to be friends with our friends. But we can't keep our friends if we want to stay in therapy. And so like we got caught, like, totally without anyone doing anything wrong, fell into this loop that we could not escape, where we lost our therapist and our friends, both. Because those worlds overlapped. And so it felt so familiar to what happened before that we started studying about reenactments. And we reached out to the English teacher. So we explained all of this in one episode. But then when we talked to her, which she let us record for the podcast, it ended up taking like three episodes or two episodes, or something, for our conversation. And we did another episode talking with a husband, and learning and like responding to everything that came out of those interviews. So it ended up being like a whole series. Not intentionally, but like four or five episodes that all went together. And it was epic.
But it was also a life changing moment because it was that English teacher, that person, who said “you cannot go back to that therapist ever.” Because what happened was so damaging, and because it's not repaired, and because of all the related issues overlapping. Like, she's the one who said, “This is toxic. This is unhealthy. You shouldn't even be having contact with this person.” Like, “Don't do it. Block on your phone. Don't respond. Work out all the internal feelings about that with another therapist.”
And of course, during this time we had tried over and over and over again to get a new therapist, but it was so difficult and things kept happening. It wasn't even like we were shopping or had attachment issues that were disrupting the process. I mean, we have attachment issues, obviously, or we wouldn't be in this mess. But it wasn't like we were firing therapists. Stuff kept happening. Like we moved, our insurance changed, somebody died. Like, this was not stuff that was our fault. And it was so difficult to just keep starting over and just keep starting over.
And when our therapy experience had been so intense and so connected to the therapist rather than to our own work, then when that was taken from us it was like we had no air to breathe. It was like the rug was pulled out. It was not just an emotional experience, it was like we ceased to function. Like everything fell apart. Which made it feel like everything we had learned was a lie. And so then it became hard to know who was telling the truth. Like is it the therapist telling the truth? Or is it the English teacher telling the truth? Which feels like being back when we're 17 and the State asking us to testify. And that feels like-. See? Reenactments. This is how much we learned. That feels like being in fifth grade when the parents got divorced and both of them are in jail because of everything that went down, and trying to fight against each other, and being pulled to testify against one or the other. And that feels like-. See? Reenactments, right? That feels like being four and wanting to be adopted, and having to testify against your parents if you want to get adopted. Which no one ever should have said to us in the first place. And then, you know how all that turned out if you read the book? Oh my goodness.
So do you see why it was so big? It was something happening in the present that we did not mean to cause, and yet also could not solve by ourselves, but also completely uncorked like some of our deepest, earliest trauma. And then we were completely abandoned. Even the husband was not there. Like he was not harming us intentionally, but because he left to care for his parents. He left on Valentine's Day. And it's December you guy. And so he wasn't even there. Like, we lost everything, is what it felt like. And that was so disorienting and so dysregulating we barely made it out alive. But the English teacher saying, “A therapist is always your therapist forever, even if it's just in your head.” And so when something goes wrong-. And I'm not talking about-. Therapists can make mistakes. I'm not talking about that. All relationships have ruptures, but healthy relationships repair them. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about abuse or violations or safety issues or boundary issues. When it is not safe—in any relationship, not just in therapy—when it is not safe to go back, then leaving changes everything. And that's what it felt like. And so this was a huge moment for us in these conversations.
But then just like Kai is sharing, there's also something validating about having someone on the outside who says, “No, I was there. And I witnessed this happening to you.” There's something huge about that. And not all of us have that in any area of our lives. And most of us don't have that in very many areas of our life. Right? So those were powerful, powerful episodes.
Oh, this is funny. Lisa is back again to say: Another favorite episode was Challenging the Critic. That's so true. Some people seem to have critic parts or a certain alter who acts as the critic, or maybe their critic has a specific name. This comes from when we were reading the Complex PTSD book by Pete Walker, I think. For us, the critic thing seems to be a pervasive process that we're battling, as opposed to a specific altar. But there's also plenty of us that do it to either ourselves or each other, right? And so it's very, very hard.
Zari said: Our favorite episode was 227 because we have trouble eating. They are talking about when we had Annie Goldsmith on, and Annie Goldsmith is the best. She is amazing. We are hooked up with our own dietician now for like nutrition and learning how to eat and tend to our body in ways that are really, really hard when you are entirely dissociated. You guys, people forget-. People who don't have DID or a dissociative disorder forget how disconnected you can be from everything around you. When you can't feel your body, when you can't attach to a calendar, when you don't know how many days have gone by, when you don't know where you're supposed to be when or who talked to who last inside or outside, it is really hard to track things. And so there are ways, like talking about a critic, it is hard to not feel shame that you are so difficult to love when you can't even function, and people in the outside world—like actual external people—like pay attention to whether you respond by text or not, or how long it's been since you talk to them, or whether you show up or not, or who is doing what. Like, when they that stuff impacts them. And those relationships are so so important to tend to. But when you like wake up and it's six months later or one month later or two days later-. Like it's really really hard. And one tiny thing that you can do for yourself is listen to that Annie Goldsmith episode and learn how to connect with yourself in ways that are not shaming but just about functioning and how we deserve care. And how it's not even about “oh, we are good enough for care,” it's that we just exist. And we have every right to exist because we do exist. Just like everyone else in the world. Right? It is jam packed.
And, I will say, our third book is coming out early spring next year in 2022, and Annie Goldsmith does one of the chapters. You know our first book was the memoir If Tears were Prayers: A Life with Dissociative Identity Disorder. And then you know our second book is the workbook, which is now available and shipping out as fast as we can. You guys, we cannot like circumvent the shipping crisis. But orders are shipping in the order that they were received, and eventually they'll get to you. Like, we are doing our best. But our third book is a clinical collaboration text coming out where we had different clinicians that we appreciate and who have important things to share, who have contributed over the last year different chapters and we are putting them all together. And that is being published right now as we speak. And so should be out early February or March, I hope. And Annie Goldsmith did one of the chapters. And it's amazing, and I'm so excited for you to see it. For those who are interested in like NerdTown clinical text.
Misty says: Mentalizing is one of my favorites because it always reminds me of trying to listen and understand what happens inside. Oh, that's so true. It's the most important thing, and feels so impossible to do sometimes. Except that it's not. We can accept the acceptable in that we can listen to some things some of the times, or think about what we're listening to, or what we're learning or reading and process some of that in the present. And then they shared a poem that we talked about. Thank you so much Misty.
Dee said: I really valued just about every episode, but I was so touched by the recent Cemetery episode. The exploration of family history was so touching. Oh, my goodness. You guys, it's so hard. It's brutal, right, dealing with some of those layers. Oh, it's so painful. It's so painful.
Amber said: Footprints, Cemetery, This Is Us. There are so many good ones. I think Footprints really touched me personally, touched on something significant in my past that I hadn't been able to have words to express. Good stuff. Hard, but good. You guys, that episode was really the point at which we knew we were going to have to leave the therapist, and it took us a whole year to actually do. Like, we tried several times. And Footprints felt like that. Footprints was the moment-. I mean, that episode, we talk about a story that happened back in high school. But it is the moment when we knew in therapy that what was happening in therapy that was going wrong, which was a whole year and a half before the pandemic ever happened. It is when we knew that what was going wrong in therapy was not about us. Which is also when we got the idea to talk to the English teacher, but it took two more years to get enough courage to actually call her. And so and so the Footprints episode is absolutely one of those turning points for us, and was the moment that we realized that even if we don't understand everything happening inside, and even if we don't know how to communicate or listen or understand everything from everyone's perspective, that it was time to start respecting when people drew lines in the sand or gave information, and to accept that even when we didn't understand why yet. Because everything that was coming up, we were like “no” because of this and because of this, and we would give excuses and kept trying harder and kept trying harder and kept trying harder. You guys, it doesn't matter how hard we tried, it was not going to work. And it didn't matter how good we are, that's just fawning. It wasn't going to make things better. And every concern that that part of us was bringing up absolutely turned out to be true.
Multi Mes said: Is saying most all of them legit? [Laughter] That's so funny. That's so funny. I'm so glad for your support. Seriously, we are so so grateful.
Kate's shared: Unboxing Ourselves is the episode that helps remind me why keeping a journal is so important. You guys this is so true. It has been a difficult piece for us as journaling has been one of the things that we lost, and communication was so shut down and the walls went back up. It just really helped us understand how much of a difference journaling really did make, even though we hadn't yet been in a place to talk about any of it.
Unpretending says: There are so many that I love. The Fireworks with John Mark, mostly because I miss him. Oh! Oh, you guys this broke him. This stuff, everything that has happened, just broke him. I can’t even talk about it. But Mother Hunger has completely unraveled hold so much I couldn't understand. So that is also my favorite, as is the new Mother Hunger episode. I am so thankful for your courage you have helped me survive. Oh my goodness, we have given that to each other.
Jamie shares: The introduction. It made me realize, “oh, that's how I feel too,” and led me to get help in therapy. I am so glad for you. I am so glad that you found good help in therapy. The hardest part sometimes is just reaching out. Sometimes the hardest part is finding a good therapist. [Laugh] That's where we still are. And sometimes the hardest part is actually talking once you get there. [Laughter]
The Fraggles say: My favorite two episodes are the ones that cover mother hunger because it answers so many questions and explains the source of so much pain. Very helpful. Oh my goodness, a lot of people really are mentioning that.
Charlotte says: I really liked the interview with Richard Kluft. I've been doing hypnotherapy with my therapist and learning more about the history of hypnosis in DID treatment was very interesting. I had also read the myths about hypnotherapy with DID. So it was comforting to hear outside sources talking about how helpful it can be. Validation of my experiences. Oh, I am so glad. Hypnotherapy is not something that we have done that we know of. [Laugh] But also, our previous therapists was pretty hypnotic anyway. I mean, really, here's what you need to realize, is that having DID basically means that we're in a trance state all the time. And so we have to be really, really careful with what people tell us, or how we're hearing and responding to things, because that can really shift things. Especially if that is exploited or abused in any way. And I think that in the memoir and on the podcast we gave some really good examples of how our previous therapist, our previous Kelly, really did this in good and healthy ways with some really helpful things that I don't even remember, except for from journaling. Which ended up in the book, right? And so, I know that it happened. I believe that it happened. Parts of me remember that it happened. But I don't actually have any awareness of it. But she's not like a trained hypnotist or having like, or doing anything, I mean, that I know of. I don't think she is. But not doing any, like, as a technique. But just in having that strong connective presence and being able to do what she did. I don't know. It was like magic. I can't even tell you. So I'm really glad that was helpful for you.
Kat said: All of them. [Laughter]
Carolyn said: I just listened to Meeting Molly and have to listen again. I love how you work together and with a therapist to save the girl. I wept when you sing to her. Oh. Memories. That's in the book too, and it makes me cry. I can't even. Oh, you people bring it all up.
Ariel said: Betrayal Trauma hits home. It's hard to hear. It's so real. Yeah, that's brutal. I feel like we've already talked about that today. [Laugh] It's brutal.
Wylie shared: I feel like I'm repeating when I say all of them, but it is really true. Different ones of us have different favorites. The podcast has helped so immensely in so many ways, and it may have created an obsession with salsa with one of my littles. [Laughter] That's really funny. That's really funny.
Stacy says: I just listened to my first podcast, Challenging the Critic, so it's my favorite so far. Well welcome, Stacys.
Douglas says: There are so many episodes that we absolutely loved. But if I had to pick just one, it would probably be the one called Internal Worlds from January 8 2019. It was really neat to hear Sasha have some huge “aha” moments of that on that episode, because it really reminded us of times that we had those kinds of breakthroughs where we suddenly realize something that made a lot of things click into place and make sense. DID is very confusing, so anytime we can make progress in figuring things out is very precious and something to hold on to. Oh, that was so tender. That makes me… um. That's so tender. Thank you.
Megan says: Meghan's Rainbow is our favorite. [Laughter] Megan was on the podcast, and her episode is her favorite. That's hilarious. Alligators might be our favorite because John Mark is amazing and we love you buddy. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Makes me, oh, my heart. That Alligators episode was actually recorded like on the tennis courts at the hotel for the Healing Together conference the first time that we went. So I get, when we when you mention it, like, immediately it's like a flashback, but of a good kind. Like immediately all this sensory information comes back to my brain about what it was like being there and how scared we were. And we weren't talking to people yet. Like that's when we were still like a walking panic attack all the time, right? So even and despite all that we have been through, there was so much good that’s happened. Like, our previous Kelly, she was a good therapist. She did some good work with us. We are so much better and so much calmer even when so much hurt so deeply. And you guys, here's the thing. Like, again, hear me clearly. Because we have trauma. And trauma is supposed to hurt deeply like it does. So the fact that it hurts deeply is because we can feel, and we're feeling it instead of being anxious about it. And so even though that's a difficult experience, it's actually good and healthy and right. But also unpleasant. [Laughter]
Ceols say: This is ironic, because I just listened to that episode on Friday, Megan. I really like the conversation revolving around spouses. It still has my mind mulling it all over. Oh, that's so true. That's so true.
Robot system says: Probably Autism and Trauma, or Inner World. Both were really “aha” moments for me and my system. I'm so glad that was helpful.
Astrid Says: I Love Episode Two with the good doctor. It's full of great information that is helping me understand this very complicated disorder. Oh, my goodness. So this is a friend of ours that attended the ISSTD conference for the first time. And we had a conversation that was so long it was epic. We ended up breaking up, I think, into three episodes. And it was just powerful stuff. And again, part of our transition of realizing, okay, we can't go back. Like things will never-. That's true of any kind of grief or transition. Like, you can't go back. Like, there is never anything that is going to make the past be what it was again. You can't go back to that space. In our case, we literally can't go to the office. It's not there anymore. [Laughter] And so, so I think it's so hard to understand for two reasons. One, because when you have like alters or all of these pieces inside, it's like clicking over dominoes trying to get the information all the way into you. Right? So that takes ages, like years sometimes. But also there's the part of I think that when flashbacks are so vivid, and we are used to having horrible, horrible flashbacks that are so vivid, that it's hard to understand why we can't go back to where things were, or to how things were, when it feels like the past invades the present all the time. When you are used to Memory Time invading Now Time, it's really confusing to figure out why that doesn't work the other way. Why you can't go from Now Time back to Memory Time. Does that make sense?
Swarming says: I don't like picking favorites. They're all good. Oh, well, thanks.
Kristen says: I just started listening to the podcast so I don't have favorites yet. Welcome Kristen!
Linda said: I have just started listening. So far I like the one with your husband best. Spending time exploring my inner experiences can feel crazy to me, as can hearing similar ones from another that I relate to. However, hearing how naturally accepting your husband is is wonderful. It seems to help me hold the perspective of you not being a hermit living behind a rock, as I sometimes feel where I may belong. Oh, yeah. No. I get that. We hide too. We've moved and have not left our house yet. And it's been three months, four months. I don't know how many months. [Laughter] We moved a long time ago and we still haven't left the house. The husband has. The children have. We still haven't left the house yet. Like ah. Accepting isn't even the correct word because it sounds as though for him, there's nothing even for him to be accepting of. More just like being there for you as you are learning to be accepting of yourself. Whoa, Linda's, you just blew my mind. But it is not even that, because it sounds within the context of regular couples just being there for one another. You know what, that's great. The husband and I are delighted that for the first time we've been called normal. [Laughter] Because that's never happened in the history of our marriage. I love how even inside a person may feel divided, someone else is able to understand that to love them is to love and accept all of what makes them who they are collectively, which in my opinion, should be the case, DID, OSDD, or not. There is lots to love about that episode. The energy of your bond with one another is palpable. I appreciate you sharing so much. Oh, that's so kind.
Do you know why our energy is so good between me and the husband? Like, it's not because everything's perfect. It's not. Clearly and obviously, those of you who have listened to the podcast or read our story, know that we as a family have been through a lot. And it's been very hard. It has nothing to do with circumstances. Circumstances are not what gives you happiness or joy. It is the presence within those circumstances. Like, circumstances are completely irrelevant. We are happy because we have chosen each other and because we care for each other. And because we do that work of like acceptance like that you're saying, that even when he has issues or I have issues, or we have struggles because of our circumstances, we are okay together within those circumstances, or despite those circumstances, or while those circumstances swirl around us, or whatever it is. Like, we have committed to being a, like being solid for each other. He is not a variable in my life. Are there lots of things that are challenging about our circumstances, or about ending up being married to this man or about his issues, or my issues that he has to deal with? Sure. Sure. Life is hard sometimes, and we have had plenty of hard. So there's no reason to make life harder by being hard to each other. Does that make sense? We have to be a safe place for each other. And that's what we do.
Michelle said: I actually listened to the webinar a few months ago. I do better reading than listening to podcasts. I am looking for a way to listen to them as I drive in to work. Oh, I hope that helps.
You can also read the transcripts. We have a handful of people who have worked really hard over the last year, almost like their pandemic project. They have contributed so much time and energy into getting the entire five years of podcasts transcribed. We are about four-fifths of the way through that maybe, maybe two-thirds, and more than two-thirds. I think we are very close to being done with that, and I am so grateful for all that they have done.
Multi Mes says: Anyone else missing email episodes? I like hearing about others perspectives and experiences. It makes us feel less alone and more hopeful that we aren't. Oh, well, I hope this thread was helpful, even though you already read it. [Laughter] Oh, it's true. Also, you guys never shied away from real questions. And in all the email episodes, you all just went for it. You were brutal in all the best ways of sharing your hearts, of sharing what was good, what was hard, what the struggles were. And I think that's why from the very beginning we did this together, and we helped each other. And it was such a powerful project, this whole Phase One podcast of System Speak, of us learning about DID, learning what therapy was, trying to do therapy, going through the good and the bad and the ugly of therapy, and really making the progress we have until we are where we are now. And not that we're finished. I don't mean that at all. Like, it's time for Phase Two, right? And so the difference was that none of us were in it alone because we had each other. And that's really how the Community came about.
Morna says: Episode nine with Colin Ross introduced me to reading books on trauma and DID. Also the episode of visiting the mother's grave was helpful as my mother died recently. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness, that's so intense.
Jeanette says: I've just started listening to them and there are so many it's not possible to choose Right now.
CC says: I love every episode in its own way. But right now if I have to pick relistening to some old episodes, it must be episode 181, Holly. So much recognition. So honest and brave. A big thanks to Holly for this interview. And this showed me that there are others who struggle with how mental illness affects the kids. Holly has been on the podcast. Holly is active in the community. Holly supports the podcast. In fact, her birthday is in December. So everybody say, “happy birthday, Holly.” Because do you know what she does for her birthday? Her whole family contributes to the podcast. And that is part of how we keep it going for the whole next year. And that is part of how we are able to keep the old files up. So people just now finding the podcast, or people who want to relisten to episodes, can because of Holly’s support. So everybody say, “thank you, Holly.”
Debbie said: I don't know yet. I was just referred to this site today. And I'm sitting here listening to podcast episode number one. So far so good. Oh my goodness, you guys, that seems and feels like so long ago. Episode One five years ago? Oh. I can't even, just this reflecting experience today. This afternoon has been so powerful.
TheDukSystem says: I've been listening to them, and how do you pick a favorite or even a few favorites? Like I will listen to them and think, “this will be my favorite.” And then I go back over another one and listen to it and be like, “oh, that one is my favorite.” And then I find another one and I think that one is my favorite. You all bring so much knowledge and wisdom all the time. I'm listening to the Dr. Dan Siegel, one from this time last year, and relistened to others as well this year. I'm just so thankful you all share your journey. Oh my goodness, I'm so grateful that it has been helpful. Thank you for sharing
Sia shares: Emma Stays is my favorite episode. The peace my nervous system felt when it was discussed how a simple walk outside is a big deal for her and why it means therapy is working. Oh, I remember that. When we used to go on walks and be so brave in the world. [Laughter] Now the world has shut us down. We'll get there. Don't give up on us. Don't give up on us.
Brooke shares: There multiple episodes we love because there are multiple people inside who have favorites. The Unboxing episode is probably a unanimous favorite. I'm so glad that was helpful. That's a few times people have mentioned the unboxing episode. That's the one where-. We have two journals. This was back then. One we journaled in every week for our therapist and turned that into therapy. That's where the book came from. The other one was like an introductions notebook. We called it our circle notebook. We talked about this a little bit in the workbook we've released now. But we just kept it just for introductions. And the day that we finally sat down with it and look through it and read it was fascinating and powerful. And that is the unboxing ourselves episode.
The Mandy's system says: New Now Time. It's something I'm working on in therapy right now and it touched me greatly. Oh, my heart. I'm so grateful that that was helpful.
Raven says: I'm so sorry. There's no way I could pick just one episode that's my favorite. There are so many top favorites.
Medley system says: The one where you share hugging an altar. It made me cry. Oh my goodness. I don't remember what it's called.
Kelly: Oh my goodness. This is an actual person named Kellys, or that's the Kelly name that they're using on there. So I'm sorry we say that the previous therapists, all of them, are called Kellys. [Laughter] I never thought about real people called Kelly. I'm so sorry. A shout out to Kellys for dealing with us. I'm still a newbie. I love John's first podcast, but last night I heard Protector Powwow. I cried it the joy and amazement and Taylor's voice talking about her therapist. That episode is epic. I don't know if I've even listened to it, but I’ve gotten a lot of emails about it over the years. And she was just an amazing therapist. And I think that's why the grief was so deep. Because we lost two things. We lost her as a person, which I guess-. I mean, in truth we have no right to anyway. So that's our footprints aspect. And then we lost the really good therapy. Which, like, there's nothing that's going to be replacing that. Like, there's, you can't make that up. You can't just find that. That is such a treasure and basically has ruined us for therapy now. [Laughter] I'm glad it was helpful for you, and I am glad you are going to be that kind of therapist. That's amazing.
Unpretending says: My new favorite (someone else must have listened the first time) is Jeff Clark and the Patchwork Quilt. Him and his wife’s story melted me. His love for her and what he's done for her to support her healing is incredibly nurturing. The mirrors! I'm so glad to be going back through each episode on the podcast as the layers within are helping my understanding on my journey with DID.
[Not named]: I don't know. I like the ones where Emma talks about books she's read or conferences. I learned about from those. Oh, I'm so glad that you learn from those. We share books sometimes. And sometimes we do conference recaps when we have permission, or can do it without-. Like, we can't just share a whole thing and we don't record conferences or anything. But when we share what we learned or how it's impacted us, that's really helpful.
Graham says: the Keynote Address at the Plural Positivity World Conference because it eloquently argued for survivors as competent. “Help us not be so distressed. Help us function. Then we won't be disordered. We can handle the rest. There's a lot of positivity about being Plural.” Oh my goodness. I love them.
Lucy’s: I don't know if we have a favorite. Some parts of me just felt like we can relate to certain parts of you, maybe due to my parts’ certain ages. I'm not sure that that makes sense. I'm so glad you feel connected.
Suzy’s: System Speak is like a big beautiful bag of colorful candy. [Laughter]
Susan says: I love Sasha! Hey hey! I also relate so much to the mom and her always questioning her mothering skills. Ugh. Even though she is one of the most incredible mom figures I've ever witnessed. I love Dr. E and how intelligent she is, and all the experts and other DID people you have on. I could go on. Oh, thank you so much for sharing.
Rose says: Iris and Try Softer, the truest part of your 2020. I don't know if I can even read this out loud. Oh my goodness, my heart. Those were probably the two darkest episodes of 2020. Absolutely. Oh, my heart. Okay. Whew. You people. You people. Iris and Try Softer, the truest part of 2020. Nice to have someone else share their reality, so many similarities with us. It is so helpful to witness raw honesty. Our 2020 was awful too, and Emma and Sasha your podcast gave hope. Even in your worst of times you're helpful. So grateful. You make a difference to so many. Thank you.
Ren says: so far I like Episode Four, Emma’s Perspective, I really relate to the pauses between conversation. So much of what Emma said was hitting home in this part that was hanging on every word. Thank you for opening a podcast and sharing everything. So many small parts of me are coming out to listen to you. Oh, I'm so glad it's helpful.
Glenda says: I'm new here. It was recommended to me by my therapist to help me be not so lost, newly diagnosed and scared to be misinformed. I just wanted to be in a safe place where I know the information shared is sound. Oh, that? Yes, absolutely. There's a lot of misinformation out there. And there's a lot of information that is like mistitled. Like, it may be their valid experience and true to them, but it is something else. It's not DID or OSDD or multiplicity in the way that we have associated with trauma. And it can be really trixie because we can respect and validate their experiences, but it's not the same as our experience. And it is so hard to find resources that are just for us. And that's part of why we have released the workbook. And I guess I should say the title, the workbook is called-. [Laughter] Forgot what it's called. It's called Me, Not Me and We: A Lived Experience Workbook for Phase Based Recovery from Complex and Relational Trauma with Dissociative Identity Response. But the thing that we won was calling it dissociative identity response instead of disorder. Yeah. Yeah? Do you like that? Because it is a response to trauma. And it takes the shame off of us but still says what it is. And so we're kind of proud of that.
Dawn shared: I just listened to the NerdTown gathering in which a gentleman spoke about the use of storytelling in therapy. It was just the peaceful hopeful approach I needed to hear at the time. Oh my goodness, Dawn. I'm so glad you like that. We love him and that's a powerful episode we have listened to over and over and over again as well.
Karen says: I appreciate all the podcasts I've listened to, but especially the struggles with therapists in therapy. I very much relate to the attachment issues. That's really what unfolded, right? Like it didn't have anything to do with therapists or people or friends or birthdays or anything. It was all about attachment, which also sounds like an episode title. But, um, oh, maybe it was. [Laugh] But, but it was all about attachment. And that, you guys-. It's not about who hit us. It's not about who touched us. It's not about the ways in which we were violated. Like, all of those things are terrible. I'm not at all invalidating or dismissing or minimizing that. But our wounds are relational. And that's why there was so much to grieve during the last two years. But without acknowledging that and doing that grief work, we would never get from Phase One to Phase Two. Because we would be stuck, not looking at our wounds. If we are going to see what there is to see and feel what there is to feel, that means where the wounds are, and not being distracted by symptoms the wounds are causing. Does that make sense? That's a powerful thing.
Jacqueline says: Melissa Parker, because she's a clinician speaking about her own journey and MDMA. That makes a big difference, right? When someone is talking about, or from, lived experience. And I think that's part of why it's so important and critical to have our lived experience voice out there in whatever ways are safe and appropriate to do within the context where you live. Share your story. I do not mean disclose things that are unsafe to share or inappropriate to share. Inappropriate meaning boundaries, not shaming. And don't come out if it's not safe to come out. I don't at all mean pressuring that everyone needs to be out and proud about DID. That's not true. That's great for a lot of people but it is not for everyone. Not everyone has the privilege of being able to do that. But when it's your turn to tell your story, or part of your story, in whatever way you can safely, even if it's just in therapy, let the words come.
Thank you for this journey together, the last five years for System Speak podcast. We have grown. We have cried. We have awakened. We have celebrated. We have laughed. We have hurt. But we have lived, and we have lived together. And we are so so grateful for how you have become a part of our family, and how you have developed into the Community that has meant so much to so many now. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you have done for us the last five years.
[Family singing in italics]
God be with you till we meet again. By his counsels guide, uphold you. With his sheep securely fold you. God be with you till we meet again. Till we meet, till we meet. Till we meet at Jesus’ feet. Till we meet, till we meet. God be with you till we meet again.
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.