Transcript: Episode 332
332. Emails
Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, fighting stigma about Dissociative Identity Disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org, where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what’s unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshaw on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others. We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community - a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us, including the new monthly meetups that start this month. Go to our web page at www.systemspeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there.
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
[Note: The contents of emails and comments being read in this episode are in italics.]
Angela says: Dear Emma and the System. I began listening to your incredible podcast a couple of months ago, and I have just recently finished the episode called Molly's God. I'm making my way through sequentially. With each episode, I am in awe of who you all are, what you all do, how you all share of yourselves in your podcast and in your incredible life. And this includes those who have chosen not to speak on the podcast, but I can imagine have shared of themselves in brave and vulnerable ways in order for others to be heard. No book could ever contain the lessons, teachings, wisdom and compassion I continue to gather from System Speak in the same richness that is provided through your firsthand accounts in your own voices. I can't thank you enough for sharing so much of who you all are and your experiences. Your guests, too, provide so much and are so thoughtfully selected. I'm an Associate Marriage and Family Therapist and Art Therapist working in California. As I work with clients experiencing various levels of dissociation, I needed more information. My education lacked much on dissociation, let alone DID. System Speak has helped enrich immensely my understanding of DID and dissociation, and provided me with additional valuable resources. I take notes for most episodes and have ordered some of the guest speakers’ materials. Also it has grown my compassion for humanity in general, knowing that I'll never know what another person or systems’ experiences like, and how important it is to listen with compassion, reverence, humility and love. System Speak also helps me examine my own life, continuing to uncover and heal wounds so that I may show up more fully for myself, my loved ones and my clients. Thank you for your contribution to the world. Oh, my goodness. Thank you, Angela. I don't even have words to respond to that. I am so so grateful. Thank you for sharing with us what System Speak has meant to you.
Vincent says: Thank you so much for this insightful and helpful website. I listened twice carefully to the Michael Salter interview and I'm studying further here. That is from the Netherlands. I'm so glad that's helpful. Thank you. We actually have a really big audience in the Netherlands, and so a shout out to the Netherlands. We are grateful for you and glad that you all are doing some amazing research out there.
Sarah says: I am writing to send a big thank you for all of the work that you do. I am a psychologist who treats many people with DID after working primarily in eating disorder treatment. Your podcast has been a beautiful, rich and enjoyable way for me and my clients to learn about complex dissociative disorders. Your system is wonderful. I love hearing from different parts of the system. I also loved reading your book. Could not put it down. Additionally, Aa a friend of people with DID, I also really appreciate your episodes with Julie and Sasha. Such a helpful model for a singleton like me to learn how to be a good friend to assist them. I am so grateful for you. Oh, my goodness. I appreciate your email. That is actually really a hard thing. Friendship is difficult. Attachment is difficult. And I think that we have tried several times.
And it's very common with people with DID to like have a string of fallen apart relationships. [Laughter] It is awful. Like, I'm not laughing because it's funny, I'm laughing because it's so real and you just feel so helpless about it. I think that it's one of the things that gets us misdiagnosed as borderline sometimes, that instability in relationships. But also because our wounds is in relationships, it's not something that we can fix by ourselves, it has to heal in the context of an other. And if others are not safe, or others are not present, or others are not responsive, or others are not participating, then we can't get that healing, and we certainly cannot navigate a relationship by ourselves. And so it just falls apart. And between that and dissociation, when-. I feel like we've talked about this before, when there's just time that's going by, that's hard on a person who is not DID, but for us it just feels like the next moment even though there's been a time gap for external experience. Like for us, it doesn't even feel like a time warp. And yet, here we are, oh, I'm at the surface and I really want to connect with my friend, who turns out isn't my friend anymore. Like that's really, really hard. And I think we've just gone through that again, another cycle of that of waking up and realizing that the people we thought were our friends aren't even in our lives anymore. And so do we reach out because we want to fight for that and keep trying? Or do we recognize that's actually harmful and just let go instead of pursuing it? I don't know the answers. If I could figure it out? Well, first of all, if I could figure it out, I would have friends by now. I think that I'm just getting a taste of that.
I still have my friend Peter in my life. He is a good and kind friend to us, and has been consistent and also himself. So like not intrusive, not changing me, but always respectful even when we're different or don't agree. And I have loved too that the husband is like that for us. And we have made friends through groups in that way a little bit in the Community. And so I feel like we're getting practice at it for the first time, even though we have tried so hard in the past.
But also I really think that part of why it has not worked well in the past had to do with both boundaries and safety. If you don't have good boundaries and also you're not safe, then it's going to be hard to be in the context of a relationship to even find out if someone is participatory or responsive. And when they're not, there's like, what can you do? There's nothing, and so that is hard. So those of you who are good friends-. Like, shout out to Kim, right? She doesn't have DID but she's been a good friend to so many of us in the Community now. Like, she's just collecting them all. We are the Happy Meal toys. [Laugh] She has been so kind and supportive to us. Other people in the Community who do not have DID but are being supportive, and getting to know us and friends with us. Like they are such a gift to the world, and I'm so so grateful for them. Thank you Sarah for sharing.
Lynn says: First, I want to say I love the podcast. Thank you all so much for creating it. I know this is a long shot, but with the resources you've discovered creating it, I thought there was a chance you might have heard of something. I am looking for an artist residency resort type for DID intense treatment. Does that even exist? Not looking for an inpatient situation as they are too traumatic for my system. I have asked my own therapist and have been reaching out to various places but have yet to find anything. Any info you would have would be appreciated. So the only thing I have heard about a place like this is our friend Jane, who is wonderful has still-. I guess that would be another example of a friend. Like I don't know. We're pretty far away from each other. So, that's hard. Um, she told us about a place and I feel like it is in the northwest of the States. I don't remember where else. But maybe you can message Jane from Many Sides of Jane. She talked to us about a place like this, and I don't have the details. [Laughter] So I am almost helpful. But there is your next clue. I hope that helps.
Lisa says: Hello. I have so many things I want to say, so this may be very disjointed. Well, [Laughter] I mean, look at who you're talking to. I mean really, okay. They said: I do not have DID but I have experienced trauma and I'm in therapy. I'm a school counselor in a middle school... Oh, my goodness, bless you, my child. [Laughter] …in upstate New York. Your podcast has taught me so much personally and professionally, NTIS is always running through my mind to help ground me. And I am now able to acknowledge my reactions to things as triggers for Memory Time. I just read your memoir. Thank you for sharing so much of your story with the world. I am planning on donating to support your work very soon. Oh, that would be great. We really need help. [Laughter] I am not trying to beg, but I'm saying. We are trying hard to keep all these episodes up. I am spreading word about the podcast. I feel like all school counselors and other school supports should listen to all you have out there. I don't think I can put into words how helpful your work has been for me. I imagine that so many survivors feel the same way. I'll probably write again when my thoughts are clear. I'm actually writing this while on a train into New York City for the day, so focusing is hard. But I want to end by saying that my life has been more enriched after hearing your podcast. You are truly a gift to the world. Thank you. Aw, that was so kind, Lisa. I'm so glad that it's been helpful. That really is what it's all about.
Christina says: Hi Emma. “Thank you” seems like such a little thing to say for the part you are playing in my healing journey. The first time I heard you explain how the phrase “nothing about us without us,” I cried. For the first time I was aware there was someone like me representing me to important people who are making decisions about me, my recovery, and the essence of how I get to fit in this world. In an effort to make this short, I am aware from the groups that you have been working to get an article submitted to a European journal. If there are costs associated with that, I would be glad to support you. Let me know how I can help. Thank you again for all you're doing, on behalf of all of us. Oh, my goodness. So here's the thing about articles, if you don't know. First of all, it's really hard to get it published. [Laugh] And it takes a really long time. You guys, we have been working on that article for three years. We have submitted it to nine journals. And it has finally been accepted a month ago. Well, a month ago as of when I'm recording this. And it still has not been published. But when it is published, it will be available online but you have to pay to get the article. Because that's how it works in academia. If you are able to have enough money to sponsor your own article, like essentially paying the journal to publish your article, then you can have a free access article and anyone can get to it. I would love if this particular article were free access, because I really think it's that important. But I don't think that's gonna happen. [Laughter] I also don't know if it's even possible at this point, because it's not like I can go back and reclick on the choices. Like, when you fill out the automatic things, like you have to answer all the questions while you're submitting the article. And that decision tree like takes you through this process to basically say, “Okay, you're a loser and not associated with anyone, so this is your only option for publishing.” And I ended up getting accepted, which is great, but it didn't give me other options. So I don't know if that can still change. Like if you can come back later and say, “hey…” I don't know, but I'll find out about that. But it's very kind of you. Thank you.
Maple System from the Community says: My therapist here diagnosed me with DID in March of 2020, and I found your podcast a few days later. The podcast has been so helpful, so thank you. I was able to catch up when I first found it. I spent several weeks listening obsessively while doing puzzles and cleaning at any spare chance with my headphones on. It has been amazing and a privilege to get to know you over the last few years, in a one sided kind of way. Thank you for your bravery and courage in sharing your story. I have joined the Community but struggle with trying to stay anonymous and not outing myself. Only one friend and my therapist know of the DID. My parts are fairly quiet, and I have one which totally mutes me, making therapy interesting. But I think I am doing better overall. I do pretty well in normal everyday life, and I am doing a Master's degree currently. Thank you for helping me make my journey just that much easier. I appreciate you and all of your work. I am so glad that's helpful. And I just want to say that's actually very, very common that talking in therapy is difficult. There is [Laugh] like the actual Broca's area of your brain that like turns off, basically, so that you literally neurologically cannot speak when you're in that part of flight, fright, frrright, [Laugh] flight, fight, freeze. And when you're in that space in therapy it absolutely can get triggered really easily. So as you practice feeling safe in therapy, and as your therapist learns better and better with practice specific to you how to help you, that will get a little bit easier. But it's absolutely something that pops up all the time. I'm just super excited that we understand it is the brain and not just something wrong with us, or like us not trying hard enough, right? So that feels better.
That's all the emails I have for right now. But the other thing I really wanted to share, which I said I was going to share, so I had permission to share this. But was a post in the Community where we were talking about how the last two years were so dark on the System Speak podcast. Which was before we started this one, right? We were on System Speak for five years. And how things were so difficult as we sort of worked through some therapy trauma. Which also is pretty common, unfortunately, amongst survivors and especially people with DID, for the very simple reason of not enough people knowing how to help us. And so so many things can go wrong with that even without getting into boundary violations or transference problems. Or what I really think happened to us last time was our therapist just burned out and we kind of fell through the cracks, and it felt like our utter destruction. And so there were several issues there and some boundary issues that didn't get navigated well, and the pandemic on top of that. So the podcast was so so dark as we work through all of those things.
But also, we want to remember that therapy can also be such a beautiful experience even though it's hard. And it can go right in some really beautiful ways. So being able to recognize both what goes right and what goes wrong, I think is part of what is critical in finding a good therapist who is helpful and supportive in healing. So what I asked the people in the Community and said that I was going to share that. So I have permission to share these responses. But what I asked was: “What are those stories of when therapy has gone right even though it was hard?” I asked: “When do you feel safest in therapy or most connected to your therapist? What makes a good therapist?” Loaded question, right? We got so many brilliant answers. And it is just too important not to share. So I'm going to read those. Also, I've been working on this since July. So if I actually already shared it, just don't remember sharing it, then I'm really sorry. But I think I have not yet. And lots of people responded now. So I just wanted to share what people have said over the last six months about what makes therapy good.
One person said: What makes our therapists great is really simple, actually. They actively listen to us and believe us. They value our consent and boundaries, and never push or test them intentionally. They encourage us to speak up if anything feels uncomfortable or too scary, and never shame us about it and always help us look for solutions. They even offered to switch from video calls to texting when we were nonverbal. And I think most importantly, while they're not perfect, they're always willing to learn and listen without gaslighting or shaming, and apologize when needed and change things up. Not that there have been any serious ruptures, but seeing how they handled small ones helps us relax and trust them. It is also a massive have helped that we went in seeking a queer and trans friendly therapist who cares about disability rights and other social justice things so we don't have to deal with being misgendered or explain what spoons are. Mostly the areas where therapy has gone wrong for us were either folks did not respect our bodily autonomy and boundaries in some way, didn't listen to or believe us about our experiences, or it was transphobia. That is so important and I appreciate you sharing. Thank you so much.
Our friend Megan, who is on the Meghan's Rainbow episode shared: For us what makes a good therapist is someone who can help us push our boundaries to do that hard work, but still be kind and gentle about pushing the pushing. Someone who can respect when we are not ready to look at something hard, but we'll come back to it later and help us work through it. Someone who can hear all the hard and trauma filled stuff and be able to say, “I'm sorry, you went through that it must have been so hard.” A person with whom we can laugh and cry. And most of all, someone that helps us validate ourselves and our experiences. That was beautiful. Megan, thank you.
Kate says: For us, a good therapist is one who knows what DID is, and is willing to acknowledge all of us. A therapist who continues to learn, whether that be through books or workshops. Thank you, Kate, that's absolutely true. That makes a difference.
I feel like I totally agree with what everyone has said so far, as far as the level of safety and the level of being present. And the being willing to learn and grow. Not just about DID, but being attentive to your system specifically, I think makes all the difference. And safety or what feels like safety in session or in that relationship absolutely changes very quickly based on how things are going. I know that with our new therapists that we are working with and so far has gone really well, one thing that's happened is that because we do have some therapy trauma, it is really hard to go back to the beginning of learning how to open up. But she said that from the beginning. She said, “I don't expect you to just be able to say everything right away. I don't expect you to trust me. That's okay.” Like, giving permission for that just to be in the space. But also kind of like with our dream therapist discussing the transference explicitly of “how are you feeling about our relationship? What are you noticing? How is that progressing for you? Are there any shifts that feel unsafe?” And one thing that this new therapist did for us that was helpful, what she talked about-. I think it's a Brene Brown quote about marbles in a jar and trust, and how things that build trust put marbles in the jar and things that break trust are like marbles pulled out of the jar. And so we actually, in our bullet journal, drew, like with colored pencils, drew a jar and some marbles. And when things go right in therapy we draw new marbles in the jar. And when there's a problem in therapy we draw it on a different page next to it and write about it. And then we address it in therapy directly. So that those small things, like they're talking about, get worked through so that it's not a big rupture. And then those small things can be repaired before the rupture is a disaster. And when you experience that repair, then it also builds trust again and it's like putting another marble back in the jar. So I can put another marble in the jar saying, “this came up for me, but I was heard, we addressed it, we talked about it, and I feel better because dadadada.” And that has been super, super helpful for us as we try to reengage in therapy.
Someone else talked about their therapist being responsive to a need and taking it seriously even in crisis and making time to help, and how helpful it is when you get the help that you need when you need it. Which makes sense. Like they give a very specific story about what happened to them and how that was helpful. But this principle that's in it actually makes a lot of sense. Because one thing we know about relational trauma and the brain is that a delay in care actually counts as a trauma. So when you are actually in crisis and really need help—and I don't mean just a safety, I mean like something big—and you cannot talk to your therapist in that moment, that is a new trauma. And so having a way to communicate with your therapist, even if it's through your journal, or through messaging in a portal, and you haven't agreed on, “I'll check on it this day,” or “I'll respond in it this many times.” Even if you can't just call them every time something hard comes up, like I get practically that's not even possible, right. And with our own work, I understand why that would be overwhelming just as a human. But having a way to express it and contain it and knowing what your whatever your plan is with your therapist, the way you all do that together, having access to that kind of safety plan as part of the process absolutely makes a difference. Because you can tend to things as they come up instead of having more trauma or things being worse because of that delay in care.
Shared: My current therapist somehow I don't experience as especially warm and fuzzy. Not typical for me and I stung her at times when I shared that. It's something that sticks out to me after a string of not good therapists and having a beloved therapist move with two weeks notice and no more. I feel protective of myself and my system. But she is technically very skilled, gets lots of consultation and training to be able to work with her clients with DID, and is very good for us in that way. One day, though, when we were working virtually-. I hated virtual therapy, by the way, and I felt so distant already, and adding a screen in and there was just so little to hold on to. I was talking to her about a painful memory and put my hand to my heart. She mirrored me and put her hand to her heart. And in that moment we were together, resonating. I felt so seen and heard and real. Most of all, I felt real. It was a small gesture that held so much attunement and power and healing.
Kristin says: For me what makes my therapist so great is that he is nonjudgmental. I can literally tell him anything and he will sit with me to process through all the crap in my head. He is a Buddhist and comes from such a genuine place of compassion and kindness, which makes me feel safe. He knows when to push me to confront stuff I am resistant to, while at the same time just knowing when pushing is not what I need. I feel most connected to my therapist when he simply sits in silence with me until I am ready to talk. He encourages me not to play small and to let people see me. I've had harmful experiences with prior therapists. But I am so grateful for finding my current therapist and being willing to go through the process again. Oh, that's so true. It is so difficult to start over.
A different Kate says: I have been thinking about this a lot lately. My current therapist is excellent. She is very attuned to us. She allows anyone who wishes to front to have their say. She is gentle and validating and consistent in her approach. She discusses boundaries openly and is firm with them, but has gone above and beyond in times of crisis. She is the first therapist we have had where we have been able to let our guard down and feel safe enough to work through traumas. Past therapists have varied. One was lovely but blurred the boundaries slightly in that they became too friend-like. While we got along great it made us less able to disclose hard things as we felt a need to please them and had a fear of disappointing them. Which in our head meant fear that we might lose the relationship. Oh, thank you for sharing so vulnerably.
Someone said: When I had my mental breakdown following a messy relationship and breakup, my parts I didn't yet know about were going haywire and I was switching almost constantly. For months I was seeing a therapist that wasn't the right fit. She only dealt with my anxiety and depression and never asked the right questions, and seem to ignore my dissociation. I hated and dreaded therapy because I knew I was spending so much money on something that wasn't helping. I heard about EMDR so went looking for a psychologist trained in that and found my now therapist, who I've been seeing for two years. Within a month she had diagnosed me with DID and she recognized I was not ready for EMDR because we had to explore my parts help them find a calm place and seek permission from them to do any trauma. work. Now two years down the track, we're now getting into the trauma stuff. She is respectful of not only my boundaries and tolerance, but those of other parts, which is so important. She's building relationships with each of us and spend so much time outside of session educating herself on the best way to resource us. I feel most connected with her when she bears witness to my pain and hurt and provides comfort. That was beautiful. And what an example of both experiences.
This person says: I've had a lot of bad therapists and my current therapist is so amazing in comparison. But I'm mad and hurt about some stuff right now, so I don't know that I'm able to tap into all of the good stuff I would normally write about him, even though I could normally write tons about how great he is. But I can say just the fact that I feel safe enough with him to get mad and express my hurt and anger is huge. That's how safe of an environment he creates. That there is room for me to have those feelings without feeling scared or guilty. He's genuinely okay with me being mad at him. It's so freeing.
So I think there's something to be said, absolutely-. Just like we talked about therapists who are willing to get more training, or to learn more about DID, in the same way, having therapists who is continuing to do their own work, caring for themselves to prevent burnout, caring for themselves to have their own therapist or their own place to deal with their own stuff, having a therapist who even knows their own stuff. And that's a significant issue. Because in the past, therapists had to go through therapy before they could become a therapist. But that's not true anymore. And even if they are therapy friendly or have done their own therapy in the past, if they are not staying on top of that-. Which I guess makes it true for myself as well. But if they're not staying true to that or on top of that and actively participating in their own therapy on an ongoing basis, they're not going to notice until there is a crisis.
But we were fawning too much to be able to say that because we didn't know what fawning was yet. And so instead, like, tried to make it as nice as possible. “We have to leave because our family is too far away and we need to tend to our family.” We had to do it in a way that was safe for her to feel safe and comfortable so that we would feel safe and comfortable. That's how you know it's fawning, right? Because it's really about tending to them instead of caring for yourself. But that was actually the whole problem in session was it was about her stuff instead of our stuff. Like, it completely did a 180 from what it was like when we first started therapy. And that makes so much sense. So you actually put a lot of pieces into place for me and I really appreciate that.
Our dear friends Crystals said: Our current therapist is amazing. She is completely present and attuned to our emotions or if there is a shift in our presentation due to a switch or feelings coming up. She is aware of the impact that she has on us. When we've asked her to change something or told her what helps or not, she actively works to incorporate it. If she messes up, she apologizes. And not just apologizes, but tries to make amends. We've had a lot of decent helpers in the past, but she's the first that has really got and been able to sit with that. Sometimes we just need her to be there and see how bad things hurt, without trying to make us talk or trying to fix it. The majority of therapy focuses on what's happening in the moment. The past plays in but we don't rehash trauma all the time. Instead, we focus on what's happening in the room and in our relationship. She's always asking us, “and how was that for you? I'm wondering how that's landing” after every stinking thing, and it's so annoying. So once we had to go do something and when we said “and how was that for you?” I think she laughed out loud. Because therapy is so stinking hard and the most painful thing ever, it totally burns us out and we have to take a nap for an hour. It seems every session ends with “I know this is a hard place to end and that there's a lot more there, and we're going to keep working on this together.”
There are so many things I love about this. Because let me tell you, there cannot be—there cannot be—and I know that's an explicit statement, but there cannot be good therapy for DID if the therapist does not know psychodynamic material, or is able to be present and work the transference in process. Not just generally or identifying patterns, but actively in process while it's happening. Like, present progressive. And, I think we experienced the bad end of this too. We've had therapists who didn't get that at all and tried to only be CBT or something like that. Those can be great tools, but they are not where the wound is. And so it's not about coping. I can read all of that on my own. That's what workbooks are for, to do on my own a little bit, right? That's what homework from therapy is about, right? To do some on your own and bring back to session? So when I'm in session that relationship itself reenacts and explores and reflects everything that's happened to me in the past with other people and with other relationships. And that's where the wounds are. Transference is everything. Relational dynamics is everything. The psychodynamic process is everything. And any DID therapist needs to understand these things.
Brooke says: Our system does not agree on a diagnosis, meaning some know we have DID while others disagree entirely. [Laughter] I'm laughing not at Brooke, but at that common experience where we’re like, “I know that we have DID but the others don't think so.” Or, “it's like the others think we have DID but I know we don't.” [Laughter] Like, this plural talk. [Laughter] This experience of confirming what we’re experiencing, while denying it. Like, what is that? There's got to be a word for that.
An example of a painful but good therapy experience happened when she asked us to zip up our sweatshirt during a session. We had no idea we were exposing our chest. Not our privates. And horrified, we immediately zipped up our sweater. She asked a question related to the discussion we had been having, but we couldn't open our mouth to speak. We stared off into the corner and suppress the urge to run out of the room, eventually pulling our sweatshirt up over our face and burying ourselves inside for about 15 minutes. It was awful. I can't even tell you the magnitude of white hot shame boiling inside us. She asked us who was here and we didn't know. And we finally told her a request to zip up our sweatshirt had triggered a few inside in multiple ways. We still don't understand why we were triggered. But we were able to tell her about our sensitivity related to our awareness of our chest area and how we felt like we were bad for making such a profound mistake in therapy. She told us that she asked us to zip it up not because she was uncomfortable, but because she didn't want us to realize on our own maybe after the session, and then spiral and possibly not return out of shame. It was still very hard to deal with. And we keep talking about it with her in therapy because we don't want to for various reasons. I thought this would be a good example to share because of how monumental the trigger was, how embarrassing it was to us and our response was, and how reassuring and validating her response was. She acknowledged her awareness of our desire to run away. And she assured us that we didn't expose ourselves in the way we initially thought we had. It was a very healing moment involving multiple non-speaking parts who always struggled to show up in therapy, and who I was pretty unaware of until I spent those 15 minutes trying to get them to let me extract my head from our overheated sweatshirt.
We have had lots of bad therapists. And so we better understand what makes a good one. Someone who doesn't rush you or push you to do anything you're uncomfortable with. Someone who slows down and spends time with the resistant parts, getting to know them and validating them. Someone who lets you tell them when they mess up and who responds compassionately when you do. Someone who is in therapy themselves. Someone who doesn't talk about their own life too much in your session, and if they do, allows you to tell them that they are. Someone who is willing to work as hard as you do. We spent a year working with a very intelligent, but relationally disconnected therapist whom I am still fuming about because she didn't protect the little ones when they tried to tell her how hard of a time they were having. It took us a year to realize she never remembered the places we constantly referenced. And when we asked about a reference for a psychiatrist, she told us she didn't know any and wished us luck due to the shortage in our area. Our current therapist is as committed as we are to healing and we can tell because she purchased Emma's book after we brought it to session, and by her telling us that she signed up for more training on treating clients with dissociative issues. That is a good therapist. I even told her in the beginning that I thought she was scared of me, which was scary for me to do, but I'll never admit it. And she acknowledged that part of her was insecure about her experience with our issues, but the rest of her was committed to learning anything she can to better help us. Clap, clap, clap for her. That's amazing, good for her.
Someone else shared: I have a kind of crazy therapy story. And I feel like I'm finally where I am meant to be. I don't like to end things, even with therapists. Maybe especially with therapists. I had a therapist for several years who had credentials and was caring, but that I just couldn't get myself to bond with, open up to, or trust. Instead of leaving her, I just felt bad. So a few years in, I added another therapist, and then a somatic guy. I tried a few things. I developed a huge idealizing transference with therapist number two. I could tell therapist number one had big concerns and that freaked me out more. Transference is hard. But there's a lot of stuff that came out of it besides pain. Lots of growth. Learning how to let another person in. Learning how to not get what I want, but not blow things up. Therapist number two move to another state and we continued with telehealth. Last fall, I had a bit of a crisis and it was suggested by my former couples therapist to do an intensive. But because of COVID, the woman I tried to set that up with said “no.” Therapist number two asked his former mentor if he would take me on as a client and asked me if I would see him here locally. That person is my new therapist. I had huge trust issues. But somehow because therapist number two trusted and loved this new therapist so much, I was able to accept them. I finally let go of therapist number one, and I'm working through my strong attachment that had actually gotten in the way of therapy to therapists number two. I am processing stuff I never had. I am strongly attached but don't feel like I have to incorporate him into my life. I feel like I'm right where I'm supposed to be, finally. He has the skills. He's done his own work. He cares. And my story doesn't freak him out. I know that's long, but I've been trying for eight years and it took me this long to get the help that I need. Oh my goodness, that's so true. I absolutely agree with all this. Thank you for sharing.
Spook shares: I have started to type, backspaced it out and restarted, and backspace it out. I protect. Although I would like in anger, mostly, hence the above statement, to share some of our experiences over the years, I cannot and should not. They have not been great ones and have brought about therapy droughts for us. Oh, therapy droughts. You guys. That's an amazing phrase, and I'm totally going to keep it and we will give Spook credit for it. Therapy droughts. We have definitely been in a therapy drought for two years and has caused all kinds of problems. [Laugh] It is such a relief that we finally have a new therapist, and I think we are still like, I think it's gonna take some time, like a lot of time, to believe we are really back in therapy and not just it's a mirage. Because we've tried so many times and things keep happening. And I don't know. I think it's gonna take some time.
Anyway, they say: I will say that given what we just learned about the spoon concept, it would not be an exaggeration to say that our most recent therapy experience used up our spoon supply for the year. All it took was for this kind and educated therapist with outstanding patients who had gained our trust, to articulate out of anger just one sentence. This sentence spoken to me means more hurt, more trust issues, more tears, the wind knocked out of me. This sentence spoken to an angry little and-. It's so hard right? Letting our therapist be human, but also having a right to dignity in sessions and actual help that is healing, instead of retraumatizing or further trauma. It's a really hard balance. It's a really hard balance.
Someone else says: Being allowed to be sad and hurt and being invited to look into their eyes and then seeing there that my sadness and pain is acceptable, received, instead of rejected. That I am still acceptable even if I am vulnerable. “Wow. Is that even a thing?” is what I hear Sasha say in my head. I can hardly believe it still. That is such a big deal. Like, is that even a thing? That is incredible to be acceptable and vulnerable. I love that so much.
This person says: When the therapist does not try to dictate what our healing looks like, and is willing to educate themselves, and most importantly, to be open minded even when they think they know. Absolutely. Everybody's different, and everyone needs individual care. And being attentive to that and responsive to what your needs are is so important.
It's also important to say what your needs are. [Laughter] I just thought I would throw that in there. Because it's really impossibly hard when you don't know. When we have not learned what our needs are, or have not learned how to express them, it is difficult to say. That is why we were in therapy for a whole year, knowing that the whole train wreck was coming, but not able to say so to point it out or to avoid it. And that was dramatic. [Laugh] It was not just two years since we left our therapist, it was the year before that when we knew everything was gonna happen. And that is just, like, what do you do with that? How do you deal with that? So I guess something that I would add to the list of a good therapist is what people have said about being able to address small things, being able to explicitly talk about transference, and someone safe enough that you can say, “hey, this piece is bothering me. You took a marble out of my jar.” So that the therapist can help you say “okay, so what is this marble? What does that mean to you? What is it going to take to put the marble back in the jar?” What, like, it can be that simple, but still be direct and authentic.
Laura shares: Therapy for me feels like a safety net that is always there for me, even when everything else falls apart. It has some brutal honesty with some firm validation and acceptance. I assume it's supposed to be like that safe and educative parenting that I never got to experience before. Ouch. Wow. “That safe and educative parenting that I never got to experience before.” That hurts somewhere deep, Laura. Way to just-. Laura's cutthroat here, guys. That’s just, that's brutal. That's brutal.
I think that that goes back to what we were sharing with the emails podcast even about friendships. Like, even if it's not a therapy relationship, even outside of that with other people with friendships or trying to build relationships, I think this is a big piece and that kind of attentiveness is important. I know that one thing that happened to us during the pandemic is that is that some of our friends when we were struggling thought like we needed space or stopped replying. And that actually made it so much harder because it increased our isolation and it decreased our connection. And it was harmful. On the other hand, other people were more present. And we started the groups and we had these check ins all the time, right? And I remember when one of our Aussies who shall remain nameless, was like, “Can we just talk like humans? Do we have to do this check-in thing?” Except that-. That was so funny, and it was so valid and real. Except that we do the check-in because it adds enough structure to make it safe enough for people to be able to take turns. Many of us are able to do this. Many of us are not able to do this. But it's also good practice even for inside. When is the last time-. Double extra bonus challenge question. When is the last time y'all had an internal meeting and did check-ins? Just to hear where everybody was at and what was going on with them? Yeah, no, me either. [Laughter] But I'm saying it's good practice being present with each other and like there's so many things that we are rehearsing and so many things in that process of the check-ins, even though it's not conversational at first until everyone's had a turn. Like, there are so many things we are practicing holding space for that our healing absolutely 100% depends on. And so I think that's part of why it was such a contrast for us going into the pandemic so alone after all of this devastation and ruptures we had experienced in relationships and those not being repaired, and then experiencing the opposite of that, of holding space with people and being present with people, and struggling alongside with people and receiving those same things for others. That's why community is so powerful. That's why there is healing in community when the community is doing those safe and present and healing things. It's a lot. It's a lot.
But we wanted to share, and we thank you for sharing. I don't know. We've had three sessions, including a big one we still need to tell you about what's happened this last week. But even in the struggles of all of those darkest moments, all of a sudden we have a therapist again. And it's going right. And it's going well. And it's working. And I already feel a difference. And that's terrifying. But also therapy can be so good and so healing. And if you are new to therapy, I would recommend that you go to the System Speak website or podcast, the original System Speak podcast, this is the Part Two podcast. [Laugh] I know it's so confusing. And look up Emma’s Top 10. Or if you haven't listened to that one in a while, go back to it again. Because those are the things that we learned about therapy being good and right, and where healing starts. And even with everything that's happened, those things don't change. We hold on to those things, even as we're starting now with someone else who says, “I'm really sorry that someone shattered your jar. Here's a new jar, a new container, and we can fill it one marble at a time.”
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Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.