Transcript: Episode 47
47. Meghan’s Rainbow
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
***Interview begins***
Interviewer: Bold font
Interviewee: Standard font
Hello?
Meghan!
Hello! [Laughs]
So this week has been crazy, crazy.
I bet.
Also we had other kid in the hospital right now, so it’s just been…
Oh no…
It’s been nuts. Like everything’s fine. Everything’s going to be fine, just I’m not getting to play. We have to work. I want to do stuff. I want to talk to cool people. I want to learn stuff. Just kidding. I don’t want to learn anything, but…
[Laughs]
I’m really glad that you were on my list for today. Thank you for being on my list today [chuckles].
Oh my gosh. I was so excited when I told my friends and family, they’re like, “What? You’re going to do what?” [Laughs]
[Laughs] You told everybody you were going to be on the podcast?
Well, I told my best friend and my husband and my kids, because they think it’s so cool when I do stuff like this.
Aww…
They’re like, “Mom, you’re almost famous.”
That’s funny. Do they know what kind of podcast?
They do. My closest friends and family all know and then fairly recently, within the last two months, is when we decided to talk to the kids about the DID.
Oh my goodness.
It was very scary but so incredibly liberating too, because they were so understanding and accepting.
Let’s back up. We have to work our way up to that, because…
Okay.
...oh my goodness. So, you are my friend Meghan. [Laughs]
[Laughs] Yes.
And we met in person. We’re not just online friends, but we met in person at the Florida conference.
Yes, which was awesome, because I felt super special that I got to be one of the few people to meet you in person.
Yeah, we’re pretty hiding. Like that was not English - we’re pretty hiding. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
I’m good at hiding is what I meant to say.
I’m pretty good at hiding too.
It’s scary, and I felt bad because you were hanging out with cool people and then I offended them, because I only said “hi” to you. So, I was a terrible person.
Aww, I’m sure you didn’t offend them. I’m sure that they just felt like it was a timing thing. Because you kind of saw us in the lobby when you said “hi” so it wasn’t like a planned meet up.
Right. But you sat with me while I waited on my bus to go back to the airport.
I did. And that was another happy accident.
It was wonderful though, because then I was not scared to go to the airport. [Laughs]
Oh, good! I’m glad that I helped.
You did. That was very kind of you. I want to hear the story, I mean, whatever is appropriate you know, but I want to hear the story about how did your husband find out? Well, how did you...ugh...we have to back up more than that. How did you find out about DID and when? Tell me your story, Meghan!
So, I found out apparently years ago, my best friend told me that she noticed differences in me at times and how I just wasn’t always myself. And I was just kind of like, “Oh, okay, whatever” and filed it away for another day. And then a couple years later when I got pregnant with my oldest son, she tried to talk to me again about DID and was like, “Hey, so I think there’s some things going on with you that you might want to address.” It really kind of messed with us and so we again filed it away in a little box to be opened later, and it wasn’t until a few months ago in therapy that I remembered all this. And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense when Katherine came to be.”
Wow.
And Katherine is...she’s kind of like our mom figure.
Aww.
She’s the one that handles the kids the most.
Mmhmm.
Because I can get very triggered by the kids all at once.
Yes.
They can just be so much.
Yes.
And so it will kind of trigger Katherine and she kind of steps in and is like, “Okay, what do we got to do? Let’s handle things. Let’s get it organized.” And she just sort of takes it one at a time - boom, boom, boom. Problem’s all solved. And then just like...how did...did I just do that? How did this happen? [Laughs]
I know. How do they do it? Like when Em is being all mommy-ish. She’s like, “Oh, I’m the worst mom, da da da, whine, whine, whine.” Except I can’t do what she does.
Yeah.
So how did you find out after your friend told you?
So I found out over the summer when I was in residential treatment.
Ooh, good times.
Yeah. [Laughs] It was actually a really good residential program. I was very surprised.
No way.
It helped out a lot and they...one of the doctor’s there had read over my file and all of my symptoms and my history and everything, and he says, “Have you ever heard of DID?” “No, what’s that?” And he says...and then you know? He explained it. And I said, “Oh.” And he goes, “So, I think that might be what we’re looking at here.” And I said, “Okay, so we’ve got a lot more going on inside than we thought, right?” And he said, “Yup. It sounds like there might be more going on than you thought.”
Wow.
I said, “Okay so…” I kind of freaked out a little bit.
Or a lot.
Yeah. Kind of a lot.
[Laughs]
I always knew there were other people there, like I remember hearing voices all my life, but I just thought that’s what it was. And for years they thought I was schizophrenic.
Wow.
Yeah.
So you were misdiagnosed with schizophrenia before you found out with DID?
Mmhmm.
Oh my goodness.
I was even diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder when I was a kid.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah. And so when I found out, it took me a little bit of time to understand it and I started watching the YouTube videos and reading all these blogs and the podcasts, and listening to those and everything and I’m like, “Okay, this actually makes a lot of sense. This makes the most sense to me out of everything that they’ve said over the years.” Because I started in the mental health...or you know, started in the system, so to speak, when I was 13.
Wow.
And I’m 35 now. I had to think about that. [Laughs]
Wow. So you going to the conference in Florida was a really big deal?
It was huge for us. It was huge and it was so liberating and so incredible to meet other people that struggle with DID and that...to have the opportunity to be open with other people outside of my family was so...I don’t know. It was very overwhelming, but very freeing at the same time.
What did you think about the things you learned in the sessions?
Well, first I want to say “thank you”, because you guys were a big help in us being able to go. I learned...I know it’s going to seem kind of silly out of everything, but one of the big things I learned was that it’s okay to laugh at myself.
That’s an amazing thing to learn! How did you learn that?
Well, it was in the session with… and I cannot remember her name, but she did the razzle dazzle...she’s now integrated. It was on the last day of the conference. I can’t remember her name, but she was so funny and so insightful and she just really made me laugh at DID and the fact that some of the experiences that we go through, you have to laugh at otherwise we’re really going to lose our minds. You know what I mean?
Ooh.
And some of the stuff is just so funny too, because an average person does not experience co-consciousness...
Right.
...the way that we do. I don’t know if you guys have experienced co-consciousness with a Little, but the first time it happens, it is very strange.
Oh my goodness. I have never even had that thought cross my mind. I can’t imagine. We are, for the first time, starting to maybe, I don’t know, it makes me really nervous and I don’t know why it makes me nervous. But I feel like me and Em and maybe Cassi and the Emily’s are a little bit, maybe, getting some co-consciousness going on as I understand it.
Oh wait, let me read something. Hold on. Okay, I read this just yesterday. I asked the question on a group about co-consciousness, because I think that’s what’s happening, but I’m not sure. And it scares me so then I try to be like, “Oh yay, we’re making progress.” And then I’m like, “Oh, that’s scary. Nevermind.” [Laughs]
[Laughs]
But this person said, “Co-consciousness is when more than one Alter at one given time is aware and conscious of what is going on in a situation at any given time, but not necessarily participating in behavior or action.” So she’s saying it’s about awareness instead of…
Yeah…
...influence or causing it or being out front. Does that make sense? Is that what you’re thinking?
Yeah, that makes total sense! That way of it being described, because I always think of it as being like...or me being in the back seat. I can see...of a car, you know? I can see out the windshield and I can see the people driving and in the passenger seat, but I can’t really do anything. So, I’m just kind of back there, but I can see what’s going on or you know, whoever. Like Katherine will be in the background a lot.
So it’s not when you can’t necessarily do anything, because you’re not driving. You’re not out front…
Yeah.
But you know where you’re going and you know what’s happening?
Mmhmm. And then I think of the amnesia part being like in the trunk of the car when you’ve got no clue what’s going on.
[Gasp] Okay, you just totally blew my mind!
[Laughs]
What?!
Yeah, that’s how it makes the most sense to us.
That’s amazing actually. Thank you.
You’re very welcome. That’s how I’ve described it to the husband and stuff and he understands it better that way.
I can’t imagine being co-conscious with a Little. [Laughs]
It’s really weird. Like one of them kind of popped out the other day for a few minutes when we were driving, which was really scary.
[Gasps] Oh no!
Because she saw this huge, beautiful rainbow. So she became co-conscious and started using the body’s voice to talk about the rainbow and I’m like, “Okay, okay, okay. We got to reign it back in a little bit, honey because I’m driving. And we got to focus on driving.”
Oh my goodness…
“But it’s so pretty. It’s so pretty.” And I’m like, “I know. And when we get home we will draw a beautiful picture of it.” And that made her calm down enough that she could watch and see, but she wasn’t co-fronting, I guess is what she would have been doing at that time. Because she was using the voice. Okay, so I just worked that out on my own. [Gasps] Wow.
That’s amazing, right? That is one of the reasons, even though the podcast is super crazy and why would someone as introverted as us do a podcast? It makes no sense, except that keeps happening - what just happened to you.
Yes. I feel like when you talk about it with someone or sometimes if I just talk about it out loud, I can work things out so much easier than I can on my own, because I get stuck in my own head.
Right.
And get stuck at certain points.
And journaling helps a lot, but sometimes when you’re journaling, you can’t write as fast as you’re thinking or as fast as you’re hearing.
Exactly.
And then you get onto a different tangent, and so we don’t want to give up journaling and we use journaling a lot, like a lot. But the podcast has really changed things for us.
Yeah. That’s one of the reasons I’ve been considering doing one or at least just making recordings for myself to kind of work these things out and then still remember them. Because I’ll work it out and then I forget it and I’m like, “Danget, what was that awesome thing I figured out the other day?” [Laughs]
[Laughs] Right? Right?! And if we can’t just carry the therapist around in our pocket, then like...we want to make more progress or not like more progress, but like solidify. Like what you were just talking about.
Mmhmm.
We can go to therapy and have this moment, but it’s really hard to hold onto. But when I listen to it over and over again, then I can hold onto it better and…
Yeah!
...when we talk about...like we’re not going to talk about...like we’re not here just for shock value. We’re not going to talk about the details of therapy, but when we talk about the things that we’re learning or like the principles so to speak, we can reinforce it for everybody, even if they weren’t able to hear it and I think that’s part of why the co-conscious stuff is happening.
That could be. That makes a lot of sense.
Because we’re becoming more and more aware of what’s actually happening.
Mmhmm. And everybody else is becoming more aware of everybody else and so they’re like, “Hey, I want to remember this. I want in on this too.”
Right.
Wow.
How were you so nice to that Little? You’re obviously a good mom already. I know that whether you guys feel like it or not.
Aww, thank you.
[Laughs] But I would not be that nice, even to my outside kids. No, I’m just kidding. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
I myself, I’m not speaking for Others inside, but I myself am not to a place yet where I can just be nice to them. For some reason they still really annoy me and I don’t know how to fix that. I’m aware it’s a problem. I’m too verbal about it. I’m not just trying to be naughty or snarky. I don’t know...like the compassion piece, I’m not good at compassion. And I don’t know how to be patient or gentle with them the way you just described with the rainbow.
I honestly think it comes from the time that I worked as a nanny and at a daycare.
No way.
Because... yeah. Because they were somebody else's kids. So at an early age, I had to learn how to be nice to other kids. Now there’s others of us inside that are not so nice to the kids.
That’s me. [Chuckles]
[Chuckles] Like Becca...she can get into it with our daughter a little bit who’s five. So you know, she’s a typical five year old, and she can get pretty snarky. Sometimes the others don’t really appreciate that very much and they’ll get into a fight with her. Like Emily especially and her really get into it, because Katie likes to take the stuffies that belong to us. And so she doesn't understand that they’re mommy’s. So…
Okay.
So, some of the younger parts get into it a little bit.
That is happening to us right now, because our three year old…
Is it?
Yes! Our three year old is turning four and she is in the hospital all the time. Like not all the time, but frequently like a lot, and the thing that always happens is people feel so sorry for her. Which is fine, they should. I’m not dissing her experience of being in the hospital. I’ll respect her for everything she has endured. But people always give her stuffed animals. They will just give her stuff all of the time, and so not only is she at that age developmentally anyway…
Mmhmm…
...but it’s reinforced, because people just are like entranced with her and just give her stuff.
Ohh.
And she is obsessed with the bear that we got from our therapist and it’s as big as she is. They are the same size.
[Laughs] Oh my gosh!
And it’s the bear in the picture - in the System Speak picture.
[Chuckles] Aww!
She is trying to steal it and it is an all out war going on and I don’t know what’s going to happen.
I bet, because we only have three stuffies that really mean something to us that we want to hold onto, but yeah, a bear as big as she is, I bet that’s hard for her to not want to try and steal. [Laughs]
Right. Even when she was at the therapist’s office with us this week, she was like that’s what she wanted to ask the therapist, was if it was her bear or if it was our bear and the therapist was like, “You’re not going to make me tell her.” [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Even the therapist was like, “Aww..” Like you can’t look at this child and know her story and not just be entranced with her.
Yeah.
And she works some kind of magic, but that’s not healthy. Like she needs to learn people will say “no” and that she can’t just have whatever she wants. [Laughs]
Right?!
That’s our bear, man! [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Wow. Well you gave me… I will not forget that rainbow. You gave me a very clear story, like a visual, that kind of thing really helps me. So like the driving the car thing… I think that’s what the Crisses were trying to tell me, but I didn’t understand. But you helped me understand co-consciousness with the car thing. I can hold onto that visual and the being nice to the Littles thing, I can maybe hold onto that visual with the rainbow.
That makes...yeah. And for us it was just something simple to...oh, the rainbow is just sort of for us...it was a chance to explain it wasn’t safe for her to be out, but that we still appreciated her rainbow. Does that makes sense?
It’s super sweet and it’s a very clear visual. That really helps. Thank you.
Oh, good.
Because my response would be, “You’re annoying me right now and I want to do what I want, so back off.”
[Laughs]
Not really. That’s terrible. But even joking about that’s terrible. I’m so sorry.
No, don’t be sorry. It’s...I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. It’s the way that you feel about it. You know what I mean?
So how did your husband find out about the DID?
I was talking with the psychiatrist that diagnosed me and I hadn’t yet found a good therapist. I was still looking. I mean I found a good therapist, but I knew more about DID than she did.
Right.
But I was talking with him about it and he asked me, he says, “Well, have you talked to your husband?” And I said, “No.” And he said, “Well, why haven’t you?” And I said, “Well, I’ve been scared. I don’t…” He told me and this is going to sound bad on the podcast, but he knows that I tell people this to just help them understand. A few months before I had gone into residential, he told me, he said, “Honey, I love you and I will stand by you, but I don’t know how much more crazy I can handle.”
Oh yeah.
And so I kind of freaked out, because I knew that there was more and he knew that I heard voices. He knew about that part, but he didn’t know to the extent of everything. He didn’t know that the voices were Other People.
Right.
Because they hadn’t fully started to really come out in a known way yet, but when I did tell him, he...You know, I said, “Honey, I’ve been diagnosed with DID.” And then I explained what that meant and he kind of looked at me and he says, “So, there’s more of you that live inside there.” And I said, “Yes.” And he goes, “You know? That makes a lot of sense.”
That’s what our husband said!
“That really brings a lot of things together.” You know what? And even the kids said that. They’re like, “Wow, that makes a lot of sense now.” And for me that really, really helped to validate things for me. Because I had been going through so much self-doubt. I’m like, “It can’t be DID. I can’t be that crazy.” You know what I mean? Because that’s what people use as like the standard for crazy, which I think is so horrible.
It’s wrong. Yeah, it’s wrong.
But that’s why people like you and the YouTubers and everybody are out there trying to break the stigma, but…
Maybe I should be nice then if we’re breaking stigma. [Laughs]
[Laughs] No, I think you’re being real and that’s what helps break the stigma. You’re showing that you’re not this perfect person. You’re just an average, every day person who’s got issues, just like everybody else.
That is me. The Queen of Average.
[Laughs] I don’t think you’re average, Sasha! I think you’re amazing. I love you. You’re hilarious.
[Laughs] Our husband said the same thing. Not that he was not...he’s like spiritually committed, so he’s not going to say that he can’t handle more crazy, he’s just going to get more and more depressed and internalize it.
[Laughs]
But his response was the same thing of, “I feel so much relief that there’s a word for what’s going on. And now that I understand that there’s a word for it. Everything else just falls into place and makes sense.”
Mmhmm. Yeah.
So are you glad that he knows now?
I am, because I...before...I’m a stay at home mom and there would be days where I got nothing done. And there still are days where all I did that day was survive.
That’s a pretty big deal though.
Yeah and some days that’s the hardest part is just making it through the day. But before, my husband would come home and I would make up excuses and lie to him about why nothing got done that day. Now I can just tell him, “It was a bad day” or “I’m not sure who was out this morning, so I don’t know why things didn’t get done.” And he’s like, “Okay. That’s understandable.” And he’ll help me get stuff done.
That’s amazing!
Yes. He’s for real the most amazing husband. I love him to death.
Isn’t that amazing that in a world where there were so many bad guys or bad girls, but you know what I mean, who did such terrible things that of all the impact of that on us and all the drama we went through as adolescents or young adults that somehow we got these amazing husbands?
It is. It’s incredible. And it...I don’t know. It blows my mind that people like them are in the world even sometimes after having been through all the ugliness and stuff that we have, to still find people as beautiful and loving as they are is pretty incredible to me.
You’re going to make me cry.
Oh! I’m not going to try and make you cry.
Thanks a lot, you big sap.
[Laughs] When it comes to the husband I am. I’m a big sap when it comes to him. We’ve been through some stuff in the last like almost 10 years. Well no, it has been 10 years now. Wow.
[Laughs] We don’t even know. We’re like eh. I know I married you, maybe yesterday, maybe a decade. I don’t know.
At some point it happened. [Laughs]
How did you and your husband tell your kids about the DID?
Well, I actually...what was it? It was ‘The Patchwork Quilt.”
Yes, we talked to them!
Yes. And that’s what kind of I guess gave me the courage to talk to them, because it was a very visual way for them to understand it and to see it better than I felt like I could explain it.
Okay, so I showed my oldest son ‘The Patchwork Quilt’ first, and he kind of looked at me and he said, “Okay. So that makes more sense.” I was like, “Yeah?” And he’s like, “Yeah, that explains why…” And he’s in 7th grade now, but he remembers being in 3rd grade and there was one night I helped him with his math homework and did it flawlessly. Which to most people seems normal. I don’t do math. I don’t know how to do the kid’s math, because math was taught to me one way and now they got to do it a whole new way, which makes no sense to me.
Right. Right.
Like why change math?
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
Math was supposed to be the one thing that stayed the same. [Laughs]
Right? Like history changes. Math doesn’t. It was fine. So he remembers, really vividly, me helping him do his math homework and it was all correct. And he was so confused. He even went to bed that night confused of the how mom helped him with this complicated math homework.
Wow.
And there’ve been times when the Littles would come out and gallop around the house like they were on one of those little hobby horses.
Mmhmm.
Or other things that were definitely not mom behavior that for him it was kind of like oh, okay. That makes sense now.
Aww.
And they’re so cool about it, because there’s some Parts that are not very happy all the time and they’re very angry. And sometimes they’ll come out just very forcefully at a moment when I would have responded more calmly, but they get very angry very quickly. And so I have to go back and apologize to the kids and say that you know, I’m sorry for getting so angry with them or using such harsh words with them. And now they’re so understanding about it, and they get that it’s not always me and that I don’t mean to hurt their feelings if it happens.
It sounds like it’s brought a lot of healing to your family as a whole.
It really, really has. It’s been a huge impact for all of us and even with my extended family. I won’t say their name or anything, but I have an extended family member that recently came out on Facebook after having talked with me about her DID and it was…
No way.
Yeah. It was so incredible to have that. And I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, somebody else I know that’s close to me understands these struggles. Holy crap.” So that was pretty awesome and I felt like it was a huge step for her, because she hadn’t told very many people.
That’s a big deal.
Mmhmm.
We have not told. We are not out as DID at all with anyone other than the husband and our therapist.
Really?
We did, for the first time, Emily went with some ladies from church just for lunch, just two ladies. Because you know? We don’t like people and so [laughs] we’ve been working up for eight months just to go to lunch with these people, and they tried to take us out for our birthday and we’re like, “Yeah. No. That’s not happening. You can’t make us.” [Laughs]
Like no way.
Yeah, but therapy was so good recently on some specific things that Em actually initiated it, which…
Really?
Which is like what? Like I don’t even understand what’s happening anymore. Who’s doing what? That’s when the co-consciousness stuff started coming up, but we’re using that app to talk to each other some and so she saw that and helped set it up, because one thing that she is really good at is doing all the kids’ appointments. And so she just saw it, I guess, as an appointment that we needed and just set it up.
And so while we were at the lunch though, Emily talked about not DID specifically, but she talked about how...because of Molly’s talk. They were there when Molly gave that talk.
Ohh.
Right. And so they knew that was the first outing of we’ve had some trauma in our background and so it was just Emily took it one step further of I have some dissociation because of trauma and so it’s really hard for me to meet for lunch, but the two of you have always been very kind to us and we appreciate that. And just in very generic terms, used the wordsin a sentence kind of thing, but did not expand on that at all.
But even that I feel is a huge piece. That’s a huge step for you guys.
It was terrifying to admit.
Oh, I’m sure, because disclosing anything to anybody is always scary as all get out.
Right?
It’s always...every time we have to tell the therapist something new, it’s so scary. And she’s so wonderful. I could not have asked for a better therapist. She’s an incredible woman and a little piece about her is her first client that she ever had as an intern even had DID.
oh wow.
So she’s been in the thick of it in the beginning. So she really knows her business. But one that thing I love that she does when we’re talking about something difficult is that she has crochet and knitting that she works on sometimes, because the sound helps kind of distract us a little bit from what’s bothering us. But she’ll look down at her knitting and she won’t make eye contact with us. And she explains ahead of time that I’m not going to make eye contact with you on purpose so that others inside may feel more comfortable and they don’t feel like that I’m staring holes into them while they’re trying to talk. And for us that was huge, because we don’t have someone directly staring at us when we’re sharing the most you know, awful, intimate details. That was a big one for us.
That’s amazing. We can barely look at our therapist. So I don’t know if she looks at us or not. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Sometimes we can look at her shoes. [Laughs]
That’s why I like having my knitting, because then I can just sit and look at my knitting. I don’t have to look at her and she doesn’t take it personally. She knows that I’m doing it because I can’t make eye contact right now.
That’s amazing. I know we do better if we have something in our hands. I don’t know how to knit. I don’t know if anybody knows how to knit. I’ll be like, “Hey, do we have any knitters out there because you’re now driving the hands.” [Laughs] I don’t want to say that, because it would happen and it would freak me out.
You just start knitting one day and you’re like, “What in the world?!”
The thing our therapist does like that, in a different way, is that sometimes...well, we had a therapist in the past that really took advantage of who was out and would try and trick People...like getting…she only liked certain Ones and would try to get them out on purpose…
Oh.
...and really manipulated that a little bit. And so it’s kind of a trauma piece we have and I don’t need to go into that right now, but because of that, we’re really sensitive about switching. And sometimes, obviously in therapy, it’s hard to even hang on at all.
Yeah.
Or hard to stay present even if we wanted to. But we’re really self-conscious about switching because of that and we’ve come a long way on it, but sometimes when we’re struggling, she’s just like, “I’m going to go get you a drink of water” and she just steps out.
Aww, that’s so sweet.
She is. Or she would let us leave or she just will go get us a peppermint or something.
That’s awesome though.
Or a [inaudible] off her desk to look at the notebook or something. And so the same thing sort of letting some of the pressure off I guess.
Mmhmm. Giving you that space to do what you need to do.
I’m so glad we have her and I’m so glad you have a good one, because it makes all the difference, doesn’t it?
It does. It really does. And with her, I’ve never been fully honest with any of the therapists I ever had, because I never felt safe enough. I never felt…
Yes.
...like okay to share everything. You know? But with her, even from the very beginning, from my first appointment, I just felt this calm from her, this acceptance that no matter what I said it was going to be okay. I’ve never had that before so it was a big sign for me that I knew that this was the one.
We’ve been with our therapist now longer than we’ve been with any other therapist and have told her way more than we’ve told any other therapist. And I don’t know if we’ve even started yet. Like, I don’t know if it counts what we’ve done so far.
[Laughs]
But it’s still more than ever before and longer than ever before. In fact, it’s like our anniversary week of when we found her.
That’s right! Which is awesome and so incredible. I don’t even know. I get so excited for people when they have a great therapist or when they’ve been with one for a long time, because it’s so hard to get to therapy in the first place.
It makes all the difference.
It does and I’m one of those big therapy preachy people. I’m like, “Oh, you got depression? Go to therapy.” “No, I don’t know.” I’m like, “I’m serious, it will make you change your mind. It’s amazing if you find the right one.”
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
How did you...okay, we talked about how you found out and how your husband found out and your children found out...what about your friend? Is this the friend that knew before anybody else or is this a different friend that now you’re out to?
This is a different friend. The friend that told me about everything, she’s kind of the one that told the other friend, because she has zero boundaries.
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
In a like good friend way or in a not good friend way?
Um...a little bit of both. She always has my best interest at heart, but it’s not always in the best place. [Laughs]
[Laughs] Someone else outed you. So how did you deal with that?
Well, I was really lucky that the person she outed me to is my friend, Cindy. And I know she won’t mind me saying her name. And I know I’m going to get it all wrong, but she’s gone through the psychology field as far as through and she has her Masters and her Bachelor’s and all of that in psychology. So for me, it wasn’t too terribly uncomfortable. It was more like she already understood a lot more than I did about it. So it turned out to be a really good thing, because I’ve known her since we were in middle school.
Wow.
But we were never very close. And now she’s like one of my best friends. I don’t know what I would do without her. She’s amazing.
Wow.
And yeah. And she’s met a couple of the Other Insiders and she just...anytime I tell her, “Hey, I’m not quite feeling myself today.” She’s like, “That’s okay. Whoever wants to come and hang out is cool.”
That’s amazing.
I know. It’s huge. When you just have people that are there for you regardless and just accept you for who you are, it’s…
I would like to give a thousand points to Cindy.
Aww.
We’ll have a moment of silence in honor of Cindy for being the best, best friend. That’s amazing.
Aww, she’s going to love that when she listens to this later.
[Laughs] Well, I mean it. Friendship is really hard for us and we are trying in some ways, but also one thing that we’ve really learned from the therapist, maybe even just in the last couple of weeks, is just be okay with not being okay with lots of friends. It’s okay…
Yeah!
...it’s okay that friendship is hard for us. It’s okay that friendship is not necessarily our thing. And it’s okay that it’s not a big, big priority for us. And that sounds terrible. I don’t mean that the people that we care about are not priority. That’s not what I mean and I don’t mean that...I have to learn to be nicer to people or how to communicate with my friends or say, “Hi Meghan!” once in awhile. And to stop saying on the podcast that I don’t have friends, because Julie is my friend. I know I need to learn these things, but it’s hard and…
It’s hard.
...also okay to just say, “I’m not in that place right now. I just can’t.”
Yeah, and that’s totally okay. And when I message you and I don’t hear back for a couple of days, I don’t get hurt at all. I just figure you’re either going through something or you’re really busy and you’ve got a drama thing going on and you’ll hit me back when you get a chance. [Laughs]
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Are you guys on spring break right now?
We are. And it really sucks, because I had planned…
[Laughs]
[Laughs]...that sounds really bad. [Laughs]
[Laughs] It’s so true.
Well no, I had planned...I was going to take the kids to the zoo, because we have an awesome zoo here in St. Louis, but I threw out my back on Monday night. So I’ve just been on the couch.
Oh my goodness.
And so the kids have been taking care of me. Bless their hearts.
That’s hard. We are actually in the process of planning a zoo trip.
Ooh. I love the zoo.
The idea... the therapist gave one of the Littles the idea and now it’s been an obsession, but life is happening and snow storms are happening and we haven’t made it yet, but it’s in process.
You know on snowy days, those are some of the best days to go see the big bears and the big cats, because they like to get out in the snow and play in it.
You are so smart, Meghan.
I didn’t know that for a long time and then somebody told me and I went. And I watched those little...or okay, the big bears...they’re not little...in the slow playing like they were puppies or something. It was the cutest thing ever. I didn’t think lions or tigers would like the snow, but they do.
That’s funny that you’re in St. Louis. When our youngest daughter was in the hospital all the time, we were life-flighted all the time to Cincianatti Childrens. And so…
Oh, really?
… when we would drive there or have to drive home or whatever, we always came through St. Louis. So I can tell you where the Waterslide Hotel is. [Laughs]
[Laughs] Yeah.
Because that’s what’s important about St. Louis. [Laughs]
Man. Absolutely. That’s the one thing we’re known for. [Laughs]
Oh my goodness. So what are you going to do about your back?
Well, my other friend took me to urgent care yesterday and it’s just a...it’s like a fracture.
[Gasps]
It’s nothing major. It’s happened before and it just takes a couple of days and then I’m good...and then some steroids and then I’m good to go.
Woman!
[Laughs]
This is one of those things about DID is there’s this level of pain tolerance where you’re like, “Oh, it’s just kind of a fracture, but I’ll be fine in a couple days.”
[Laughs] I know. I was walking around with a fractured...and it’s a small fracture of course, otherwise I probably would have been in a lot more pain than I was, but I kept thinking to myself, could somebody just take over, because I’m tired of pain. Nobody wanted to take over though.
Yeah.
Don’t know why. [Laughs]
Nobody else would take chemo either.
No.
What do you think is the hardest piece about DID - not the history? I don’t mean bad memories or something. I mean trying to function with DID.
I think not knowing from one day to the next the consistency. We don’t have that of like who’s going to be out when we’re being able to control it yet. So for us, in the mornings, I’ll wake up and I’m like, “Okay, I got this list of stuff to get done and we’re going to start now.” And then the next thing I know it’s 5 o’clock and only two things got done and I’m like, “Well, crap.” So I think for us the inconsistency of not being able to get done everything that we want to do, because Others want to do stuff too. So maybe that’s partly my fault, because I don’t take into account what Others might want to do that day.
[Gasps] I didn’t even think about that. Wow.
It’s just your list and it’s not entirely your day.
Yeah. It’s just mine. It doesn’t account everybody else. [Gasps] Wow. I just thought of that. See there goes another one of those mind-blowing moments.
So you have to kind of adjust...we have to adjust our expectations.
Mmhmm.
If we’re going to really be able to work together.
Yeah. That makes so much sense.
Life just happens. Like we’ve had a child...two children in the hospital this week and extra interviews, because there’s that...there’s that movie is coming out, the Five Piece movie or something?
Yeah.
And we said we could interview the cast so there’s like a whole bunch of extra interviews that we didn’t plan on having at all. And you know, sometimes life just happens, but at the same time, everyone else's needs still keep going. Just like your kids. When your kids still have needs even though you have a fracture.
Mmhmm..
So you have to adjust your expectations and eventually, Miss Meghan, even ask what their expectations are with what they need out of the day.
Ugh! That’s hard. [Laughs] I don’t want to do that. Then I have to plan for other People too. Ugh.
It’s exhausting.
It is. You know I think maybe that’s what it is, what’s the hardest thing for us. It’s exhausting caring for this many People emotionally and physically in one body.
Yeah.
Emotional needs of everybody are so much and so difficult to navigate, because...and I’m finding out that some things that don’t trigger me, like being around certain people, I’m okay with it, but it triggers other People inside and that’s why I get such anxiety. And I didn’t know this. I think it was the therapist or I was telling the psychiatrist, I don’t know which, but they brought it up and I was like, “Oh my gosh. That makes so much sense.”
Yeah.
But then, you know, you’re in a situation of how do I handle this? What do I do then? Do I just cut off all contact with that person? So we’re working on that piece of how to handle those situations.
That’s hard.
Yeah. What do you think would be the hardest part for you guys, you think?
That’s a good question. I think maybe, at least for me, the hardest part is we’re so at the beginning of things. You think oh, we’re making so much progress and we’ve learned all this stuff. And then it’s still like all...like maybe we haven’t made any progress. I think…
[Laughs]
I think the hardest part is that we’re still learning how to communicate and how to cooperate a little bit and work together or listen to each other or navigate some of those things like you just said and it’s exhausting.
We were at the…
Yeah.
...eye doctor this week and first of all, there’s confusion because we have three different prescriptions and how do they do that? And how do we get three pairs of glasses paid for? And then there’s the part about...she saw all of the kids too, right? The eye doctor saw all the kids and the husband and she was like, “I don’t know how you keep up with a family of eight.” And we’re like, “You have no idea. That’s not even a third of it.” [Laughs]
[Laughs] Yeah. There’s way more in this family than you could even count, lady. [Laughs]
Right. That’s the hard piece. I think, for me, a part of it is that I would like to have more friends and I feel held back sometimes by other Peoples’ issues internally. Other times, I feel really guilty because things that I think are okay were actually really traumatic for other people or caused other problems and I didn’t mean to do that at all. I just thought I was doing this. You know? And so…
Or sometimes you feel like you’re doing something good, but it turns out to be something really bad for somebody else.
Right. So…
Yeah…
I feel like we’re making progress in this area of being able to understand each other more and work things out differently than in the past so that helps. But it’s also just hard that in some ways it feels like everything moves so slow in therapy, because you can only do so much in an hour or in two hours. But…
Yeah.
...at the same time, in other ways, things are changing so fast I’m just like, “Shut it down. We are taking a timeout.”
Yeah.
Like...no.
Yes! It’s too much change all at once, but then it’s not enough at the same time.
Right.
It’s so confusing. I think that’s what’s hard about DID. It’s very confusing at times. I don’t know if you guys experience this or not, but I talked with another couple of friends that have DID that I met at the conference, and they also experience times where they just don’t know who they are. They don’t know who’s out and it gets really confusing and we’ve been experiencing that quite a bit and the husband will ask, “Who am I talking to?” Because he gets kind of confused, because usually he can tell, but I’m like, “I don’t know. I don’t know who I am.” He’s just like, “Oh, well okay. Well, if you’re someone new, welcome. I’m Matt.”
Wow. I think...I don’t know...I’ve wondered or I’ve seen people talk about that and I wondered if that’s something that happens later. For me, I always know that I’m me.
Yeah.
I am Sasha. I’m always Sasha. I’m never confused about being Sasha. But for the first time, when I was trying to talk the other day after therapy and do that podcast, I was saying stuff that I don’t know how to talk about. I was saying stuff that I don’t know why I was saying it. And that was my first experience of feeling that and that was all kinds of weird.
Yeah. It’s very confusing when...because I’ve experienced that where I say things or share things that I don’t mean to and I’m like, “Wait a minute, that was not at all what I had planned to say or what I thought I was saying.”
It’s disorienting.
It is. It can be very confusing.
What has been the most helpful thing that you’ve discovered since finding out about the DID? Like what helps? Solve the world for us, Meghan.
[Laughs] Um...what helps me the most is actually knitting. It helps to ground me and my therapist explained that it’s also the left right movement of the hands that helps to calm my inner-selves, because with EMDR they use those tappers that...I don’t know if you’ve ever done it or not. But they’re just these little nodes that you hold onto and they vibrate - left, right, left, right. And that engaging of the brain can help to self-regulate and calm. Does that make any sense?
It’s fascinating. So have you done EMDR?
I did try EMDR twice when I was in residential. It didn’t go very well just because I thought it was a bunch of hooey…
[Laughs]
...and I wasn’t…[laughs]. I wasn’t in a place yet that I could accept that and visualize things that well that I needed to. But now I think if I tried it with my current therapist, it could probably work. I don’t know. Because we’ve been doing visualization work and I’m guessing it’s like hypnosis. Only I don’t know what hypnosis is like.
Right.
But we are building my inner-world and a safe place for us. And I tried doing this on my own after watching Sarah Clark’s videos…
Mmhmm.
...but before I was always at a distance. I couldn’t get to the island.
Right.
And so...but now, with the therapist’s help, I can actually be there and feel sand beneath my feet and smell salty air and it’s mind-blowingly crazy.
That’s amazing. Our therapist is magical. I don’t know. We could…
I feel the same way.
...walk into her office and stuff just gets done. I don’t even know…
Yeah.
...how she does it or what happened. [Laughs] I’m just like…
It just happens!
...the Therapist...her title is just capitalized. The Therapist.
Yeah. Yeah. See, ours is kind of the same way. I feel like she’s magic. When you find the right one that’s the right fit for you, I feel like it is magic, because it’s so hard to find that person. It’s kind of like finding the right person for you to marry or to be with. It’s so hard to find that person. I feel like it’s the same way with therapy.
Yes. And when you find it...that person is worth actually investing in and doing the work. And it’s so hard and awful, but when you are connected and have...I don’t know. I can’t even talk about it. I’m grateful. I do a lot of hiding and a lot of spying. [Laughs]
We do a lot of hiding too. Well, I do. We hide. We have a fort that’s set up in the bedroom and it’s seriously just this tiny, little corner that somehow we fit the whole five foot frame body into and that’s where we hide when we need to hide.
Wow.
And it works. It helps us to feel safe.
That’s amazing.
Mmhmm. And then the kids will find us in there sometimes and they just kind of giggle. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Or they’ll just try to climb in there.
Inside kids, outside kids, they will always find you. [Laughs]
That they do. It doesn’t matter where you go. [Laughs]
Is there anything else you would want someone who’s new to being diagnosed with DID, that you would want them to understand or to know?
I would say it’s going to be hard, but it’s going to be worth it. All of the journey you’re going to go though will get you where you need to be. And if you can find the right therapist, if you can find the right support group, then it will make all the difference in the world. And for us, the videos and the podcasts made a huge difference. It just helped us to not feel so alone and to know that our experiences were being felt by other people, because I either thought everybody was like me or no one was like me. And now I know there’s millions like me. They may not have the exact same experience or the same history, but they understand things in a way that nobody else will and that’s huge for us.
Well, that was just sappy again.
[Laughs] I didn’t mean to be sappy. [Laughs]
You’re going to do the compassion podcast. [Laughs]
There we go. I should. I should. I try to be a very compassionate person or I try to be.
I appreciate you and I appreciate that you were kind to me in a moment when I was afraid and anxious and I appreciate that. You were so gentle in your connection and that you’ve been so responsive to so many different parts of me, even when we are not always good at returning the favor. And it’s something I’m learning. You have modeled that well and…
Aww.
...taught me about what it means to be a safe person for someone else and that is a beautiful thing.
Now you’re making me sappy, or feel sappy.
Rainbows, baby.
Yes! Rainbows. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your friendship. It means a lot to me. I think you guys are all so amazing and all that you do is just incredible to me, especially Dr. E’s role in things - that she can work and she can do her thing and she’s so freaking smart, and then still kind of maintains her separateness. It’s unbelievable to me.
Yeah, she’s pretty boring. [Laughs]
[Laughs] Well, I find her stuff pretty fascinating from an outsider standpoint, but I don’t live with her, so…
Well, you’re just a nerd. I’m just going to start labeling you, because I’m a bad friend. And so now your podcast is now called, The Compassionate Nerd.
[Gasps] I like that.
[Laughs]
The Compassionate Nerd. I am a big nerd.
[Laughs]
I am a big nerd. [Laughs]
Oh my goodness. I have to go before my children start any fires or blow up my house.
Thank you for talking to me.
Thank you!
You’re welcome!
Bye!
Bye!
[Break]
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