Transcript: Episode 35
35. Sasha Calls Julie
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[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
Interviewer: Bold Font
Interviewee: Standard Font
Share your screen. Browse web together. View documents together.
No, don’t touch anything.
I’m not touching a thing -
It’s been working -
We just spent the last few minutes fixing this.
Back off from the computer.
[Laughs]
[Chuckles] Are you still there?
Of course I’m still here. I haven’t touched anything.
Do not touch anything.
I listened to that podcast. That was a really good one.
Was it?
It was.
Ugh!
I listen to them all, but that one was really good. It was insightful, and I appreciate that Taylor expressed her feelings.
I...insightful?
Yes.
What are you talking about? Insightful?
Didn’t you listen to it?
No, I don’t listen to them.
Well, I mean, it was insightful in that she expressed that her feelings weren’t being considered with the switching of the sessions at the conference.
Oh yeah, that.
She expressed that she was upset because she wanted accommodations for hearing, because she wants to learn and be a part of the process.
Ugh. I think a deaf person doing a podcast confuses people, because [chuckles] they hear us talk and they know we have a podcast and so they just assume that we can hear. But, that’s not the same thing at all. And we can do the interviews and talk like in the small group or listen for the editing or watch for the editing or whatever with the cochlear implants and the bluetooth stuff, but in a big room like that, we just can’t hear well enough.
Well, and I think that’s why she was frustrated because she wanted to be able to be an active participant and learn and help.
Okay, we’re not talking about her tonight.
Oh, okay. We’re not allowed to talk about that?
Never.
Why?!
I just can’t… you’re supposed to be asking me boring questions to distract me so that the hours pass until -
Okay, we’ll come back to that another day. Okay.
I have therapy tomorrow. My brain’s about to explode.
Why?
Because maybe she hates us.
She does not hate you, Sasha.
Oh my goodness.
That’s just your anxiety overthinking for you.
I do not have anxiety. I don’t even know what you’re talking about.
Oh, whatever. No, because your stuff...like, I have anxiety on my things and you have anxiety on your stuff and your stuff pertains to offending the therapist.
What?
Yes! You’re so worried she’s just going to up and ditch y’all. She’s not going to do it. You’re too awesome.
Well, hi. I missed you because we were at the conference and it was crazy.
I helped you through the conference or did you miss that?
It was very kind of you. You were very supportive. You were a good, little cheerleader.
Look, everything short of the pom poms and the skirt, girlfriend. I was on it.
You have a gift for that - encouragement or something.
Yes - positive affirmations.
Well, there you go.
Yes, well you needed them and you know, I have a no man left behind policy. So…
[Laughs]
There’s that. The only thing I’m upset about is that my friend who saved you from alligator’s and -
[Laughs]
...airplanes did not get the donut as big as his head.
[Laughs]
Okay? And I’m on mission donut.
No, we cannot have donuts. Seriously.
Why not?
It’s a bad thing.
Oh, for the love of Pete. One treat every once in a while is okay.
Two things - number one, we don’t have a Pete and number two, it is not about calories or something.
Oh, okay.
You can put it at the bottom of the list for questions we’re not answering [laughs] today.
[Laughs] Of the 52. [Laughs]
[Laughs]
Okay, so for the last podcast, we got a question and we forgot to answer it.
Oh, okay.
It’s how old is the body?
36.
Right, and the body has a birthday soon, but we’re not going to talk about that.
How do you know that? No, we are not talking about that. You’re so creepy.
I’m not creepy. You told me, you crazy girl!
[Laughs]
That does not make me crazy. That makes me a friend who listens to you when you tell me things, because we had a whole conversation surrounding it.
Yeah, that’s creepy. [Laughs]
Okay, well then you creeped yourself out on that one, because I can’t help you when you share the information.
Yeah, stop being so nice. It’s weird. [Laughs]
I’m sorry. Would you prefer I be hateful and creepy?
I know how to do hateful. I can handle hateful.
Oh, well I’m glad you can, because I got something to say about that. Alright, so…
All this attentiveness is woof...it’s pretty difficult.
Really?
Okay, moving on. Next question.
Oh golly. You’re so special. Okay.
Did you just call me special?
Yes, but special as in silly.
[Laughs]
Okay, so...but like I don’t know why you would want to go to Africa.
[Laughs] I don’t know. I was just trying to go to Kansas City. Africa was an accident.
So, there was a question on the last podcast and they said, are you going to have your therapist on the podcast?
Oh, no. My therapist will not ever be on the podcast I don’t think.
Yeah.
Like no, that’s not happening. She’s a super private person and we’re super private people and our podcast was an accident, but that’s not her fault or her problem. [Laughs]
Well and also, that’s a HIPAA thing too.
Well, it’s not a HIPAA thing if we say it’s okay and if we are talking about ourselves, but no. She’s just like...I’m not even going to say her name or where we’re at for therapy.
I can think...it’s like when you have a brother or a sister, right? I can say that maybe she hates me and wants to fire me and I can get all panicked about it, but if anyone else messes with my therapist [laughs], they’re going down.
Your therapist is fantastic.
She’s amazing. Except when I was talking earlier today on the other podcast about how she works so hard and gets right to work, I made her sound really aggressive. And she’s actually really careful about not pushing. So, that was not a good presentation because I was focused on one piece of things. But she always will say, we have a choice, we don’t have to do anything we don’t want, and she’s not going anywhere uninvited, and things like that. She’s legit respectful.
Oh, listen! You were like I don’t know how she does this, this, and this and um dude, just an FYI moment, because the lightbulb went off in my head when I thought about it for a hot second.
That must have been uncomfortable.
No, it wasn’t. It was great, because I am a plethora of files. Okay so, what went off in my head was psychotherapists and one of the descriptions of their job is hypnotherapy.
What?
Yes.
What is hypnotherapy?
It’s where you’re kind of in a hypnotic state.
She doesn’t hypnotize us.
Okay, well I’m just saying that’s the only way I can think she would be able to put a ladder and a freaking hammer and all these good things in there. It’s not a bad thing.
I don’t know how she did it. I don’t know. I can’t tell you.
It would only be a bad thing if in hypnotherapy, she said, okay so everytime you talk to Julie you’re going to have to smack yourself in the face.
[Laughs] No, no, no, no, no, no.
But I don’t know, because then I got to thinking about it and I’m like, well, the husband was able to put in a bus stop.
[Laughs] How crazy is that? What? I don’t even know what to do with that.
Oh, who is your favorite alter in the system and why?
No. [Laughs]
So, we don’t have a favorite in the system?
My favorite?
Yes.
Myself. Hello. [Laughs]
But wait, what about Kassi?
Oh, yeah we ought not go there.
Okay. Alright. Okay, here’s another question. Do you have issues with the way the body looks on the outside versus how you look on the inside.
Yes.
Really?
[Laughs] Yes.
Because of the grey hair? Enlighten me.
Because of what?
The grey hair.
Oh, no. The grey hair is weird, but there’s not a lot of it. But there’s a lot more every day. [Chuckles]
Well, I told you how to take care of that.
No, I don’t care about the grey hair. It’s not that the grey hair is bad. It’s that I forget it’s there and so it’s shocking everytime I see it. But, I don’t care about that.
[Laughs] Me too, hunny. Me too.
No, well okay, see, the truth of it is that we actually have ovarian cancer and so I’m just glad to have any hair. Our hair is still growing back and it’s totally in the awkward, ugly stage which was awesome for conference by the way. But I’m just glad we have hair.
I mean, Sasha, I didn’t know you were a survivor.
I am not a survivor of nothing. [Laughs]
Whatever. You’re awesome. I just adore you. Okay. Yeah, a person in my immediate family had cancer and you’re right, when it grows back after the chemo, it’s kind of patchy.
It’s weird. It’s long enough now. It just looks like it’s cut short on purpose, but it’s not. It’s gross and ugly and I look like my brother and that bothers me.
Oh, that was a question I was going to ask you. Do you have any siblings in the system?
Um...I don’t. You mean inside, right?
Right.
That’s a crazy good question. I don’t have any siblings inside, but there are two girls inside who are littles who think that they are sisters and refer to each other as sisters. And it’s really confusing, because we have one who’s actually called sister, because of our brother. And so it gets confusing sometimes if you don’t know that or aren’t paying attention.
My golly. I learn something new everyday. Okay, so maybe they are sisters. I’ve heard of other systems who have brothers and sisters and that’s...or like twins.
Yeah. We have maybe two girls who are like that.
That’s interesting. Okay. Okay, what is your biggest challenge in being a part of a DID system?
Not getting fired from therapy. [Laughs]
I don’t know why you...this is not going to happen.
[Laughs] Um...my biggest challenge -
Like, real talk. That is not going to happen. I’m going to deviate a minute with the queen of deviation. Or what is it? What did I say?
I am not a deviant [laughs].
No, not a deviant. What is it? Um...what’s the word? It starts with a ‘D’. Come on, Sasha. Help me out.
No way. So, I think things are challenging obviously are taking turns and sharing and splitting up the time and doing what I want instead of what everyone else wants and not getting fired from therapy. [Laughs]
Ugh. Oh! If you could co-front with anyone in the system...no… if you could co-front, who would you want to party with in the system?
You mean like someone else out with me at the same time?
Yes.
That trips me out. I don’t know how to even consider that.
Okay.
I know it’s a thing. I learned more about it at the conference and from group. So, I get that it’s a thing and I know that we’re supposed to work on paying attention or whatever, but that still is really weird to me and I don’t have a good enough grasp to be able to answer it. Also, I just don’t like them. [Laughs]
That’s not fair. Okay, I like them. Okay so, what is your favorite thing to do in the outside world besides hang out with the husband?
Ballroom dancing.
Really? You can do that?
Yes. Hotel hop. No, I’m just kidding.
[Laughs]
That’s the week we’ve had. Call you, Julie. And not get fired from therapy.
Oh, I’m on one of your favorite things to do?
Abso-fruitly.
Look, she thought she got rid of me, but what she realized that she couldn't’ get enough of me.
[Laughs]
What do you feel is your role in the system?
Ugh, next.
Okay, I didn’t know that was such a touchy question.
[Laughs] I mean my job is to do the podcast and to not get fired from therapy. [Laughs]
That is not just your job. Ugh, goodness. We’ll come back to that one -
I think. No, honestly, okay. I’ll go there. I’ll take it. I can take it, Julie. Bring it.
Yes you can, because you’re a hero.
I think that right now I’m kind of a placeholder, because a whole bunch of stuff went down. We started the podcast. All that stuff happened at Christmas with family services and there were such hard adjustments for Emma and the one who’s the mom with getting into therapy and I kind of came from all that.
Well so, you’re awesome.
[Laughs] Clearly.
Here’s the other thing, you handle business. That’s really what it is.
Oh, I do not want to handle anybody’s business. I want to hide everybody's business. [Laughs]
Oh, that’s not true. Hey, I did meet the mom though. Love her! She’s super fantastic.
Ugh, so boring.
Well, I got to tell you, for a hot second I thought it was you or Emma, because sometimes you and I talk and you don’t tell me, but I know it’s you.
Yes, because I’m awesome.
Exactly. And so, but then she started talking about outside kids...that’s when I was like nope, that’s not Sasha.
[Laughs] She’s so depressed.
You think?
It’s so bleh. Why are moms depressed?
Um, well you think about it. Okay? Let me break it down for you as a mom, okay? So, okay, as a mom of special needs kids -
Ugh…
It’s all consuming, right? Because you’re doing medication. You’re making sure they’re at whatever appointment when they need to be there. You’re making all their meals, right? You’re feeding them the meals. You’re doing all the baths. You’re doing all the homework. You’re dealing with all the teachers. You’re dealing with all of the superfluous stuff they comes with having kids, right? Which we sign up for when we become moms, right? But then, you get into a situation where you don’t get a break, right? Mom job is 24/7.
Ugh.
And there’s no vacay. It’s not like you get to go out on dates. I can’t tell you the last time I went on a date. When was the last time she got to go on a date?
She doesn’t go on dates. I go on dates. [Laughs]
Right, but what if she’d like to go out sometime?
That’s what the therapist said. Why do you always take her side?
I don’t. I’m taking my side. I’d like to go out. [Laughs]
Ugh. Okay, okay. Next question.
I’m just saying, you know? You might want to put it into perspective and throw my girl a bone every once in a while. But, the husband could do that too, but that’s not my business.
Okay, so…[laughs]...and I don’t mean that mean. I’m just saying. Like, my husband can ask me out on a date too, but he isn’t doing it so there’s that.
We get two dates a month. One night is this church...not our church where we go, but another church who would really like to convert us. They do a monthly respite night for special needs kids and they take all of our kids once a month for like a whole evening. And then another night once a month, they have some kind of parent’s night out. Only they call it kid’s night out to make the kids think it’s cool. They don’t know they’re getting dumped.
Right. [Laughs]
They go to the YMCA and they get to swim and watch movies in the pool.
Oh, that’s cool.
So, we get two date nights a month.
Okay, well can he finagle an extra in there?
No. [Laughs] That’s not happening. Well also, our kids are really little and they’re all in bed by 7. Tonight they were in bed and asleep by 6:45, so every night is date night. [Laughs]
Okay, well like, still.
[Laughs]
Maybe she’d like to get out with the husband and go somewhere? Maybe one of those nights you split it and you take one half and she takes the other half. She’ll take the beginning and you can take the end. Hello, pleasure!
Wait, are you telling me to take turns on dates?
I’m telling you to be fair.
Oh, dude. I’m not sharing. What is wrong with you? You better -
But look, I told you how to get the win-win out of that. She gets the beginning and you get the end.
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
Okay, next question.
Oh, that’s funny. Okay um…[laughs] like truly, I’m trying to be your friend and be fair. Okay, I’m still on your side though, but I’m just saying if we’re going to be fair, let’s be fair. I’m teaching you how to be a friend. Okay…
Ugh.
Let’s see...oh, how did you all work together to decide your major in college?
We didn’t. [Laughs] We have...well, Dr. E, that’s what we call her on the podcast, right? Dr. E just is the one who’s always done school since kindergarten so I didn’t really care what we majored in. That was just her thing.
Yeah, but what if she couldn’t go to class one day? Then who took over?
We just didn’t go to class.
Are you serious?
But she always went to class. That’s the only thing that she does - is school and work.
Oh my gosh.
That was like forever. We went to college for 15 years.
Yeah, I would imagine if you have a PhD.
She has three masters and a PhD and a postdoc.
Then she made a career out of school for a really long time.
[Laughs] I think we just stayed in school until she ran out.
I mean, you know, until keg parties stopped getting called. [Laughs]
I think school was -
...and you couldn’t do the keg stand. [Laughs]
No.
See, here John’s telling me that you’re a beer poker kind of girl.
That [chuckles] dude, he saw the men at the hotel drinking beer and playing poker. I did not join in in a game and yes, I did have alcohol in the past, it’s true. But, my therapist gave it to me. [Laughs] Not my therapist now. Oh my goodness. Not my therapist now.
The really bad one. The really bad one.
A previous therapist, and that’s how I learned to drink was from the therapist and then we dated a lot of alcoholics in a row. Well like, not a lot, but it kept happening - three times, three relationships with alcoholics. And it was like finally let’s just not. And so we stopped drinking and also, Emma got baptized. But when we stopped drinking then all of our friends were not our friends anymore. It was weird. It was like they couldn’t function without alcohol and I had no idea that everyone in my life was an alcoholic. I had no idea. But it wasn’t just someone who wants a glass of wine with dinner or a night out with the girls or something. It was like they could not function, even at work, without alcohol.
And so when we started functioning without alcohol our lives no longer crossed paths. I used to drink wine and sometimes I drank other things, but we really...like of all of the mistakes that I ever made [laughs] or all the messes I ever got myself into, the one thing that we didn’t do a lot of was alcohol or drugs. And I think it was because our brain was the only thing we had going for us and we didn’t want to mess it up. But also, all of those things got introduced to us by people that were not safe. So we were so isolated in growing up that we were never around anyone in highschool or even college that drank alcohol or used any drugs or even like marijuana or something. We just weren’t around it. We were never exposed to it, but then the first person who offered us alcohol was a therapist and the first person -
That’s such a breach of boundaries.
...that ever offered us marijuana who was a different therapist who then also offered us shrooms at the same time. And so [chuckles] because that was already an unsafe situation, we’re just like we’re not going there. We’re just not going to do it. And so I did...I even now...I miss wine or drinks or something and sometimes I wouldn’t mind in the past having a drink or whatever - a beer or a shot of tequila or something for fun.
But I never got just trashed because for me, and I’m not speaking for other survivors, but for me, anything that added to me losing control contributed to dissociating more than what I could control or manage did not feel safe to me. Because I didn’t want to not know what was happening. So, we modulated that. Other people almost have to use substances to regulate themselves until they learn how or whatever or are able to do that. But for me it was not a strong point, but I also had issues with substances that were given to us when we were young. That’s a whole different story. And so I think that’s another reason we avoided it, because it was really a trigger. It wasn’t something that was recreational.
That makes sense.
This got way deeper than I intended. [Laughs]
Sorry! I asked a very basic question.
Okay, so how long have you been in the system?
Oh, pass.
That’s not complicated, but okay.
[Laughs]
It’s very basic - 10, 20 years...30, you know? Rock on. Do you age? Like next year, will you be 18?
Do I age?
Ugh huh.
Well, I think there’s more grey hairs than there were yesterday.
No, that’s the body. It’s a totally separate thing, but I like how you dance around the question. No, it’s like okay, so are you going to have a birthday and if so will you be 18? Or are you going to stay 17?
I don’t know how all that works.
Okay, so let me break it down to you the best that I understand it, okay?
Okay.
Okay, here it comes. Alright, so there are some systems who have alters that are age-sliders, right? And age-sliding is like at one point they can be five years old, but at another point they can be nine years old, right?
Okay.
And then you have alters in the system who age with the...like every year, right? So, let’s say they started off at 12 and then they’re 13, 14. They may not necessarily be the same age as the body, but they’re aging every year, right?
Mmhmm.
Then there’s a thing for alters who don’t age at all. So, they’re always going to be 17 and let’s say that they don’t want to age, which apparently that can happen.
I don’t know that we have any age-sliders. I know we have some littles. I know we have one little who’s just waiting for a birthday. I know that Dr. E came when we started kindergarten and aged with the body, except is two years behind because of two years she lost when we were first diagnosed, but otherwise she’s caught up. And so everyone else I don’t know. I’ll pass. I’ll pass to the next question.
Okay, if you could change anything about the inner-world, what would it be?
If I could change anything about the inner-world, I guess I would change...there’s some places that are creepy and scary and I wish I could just get rid of those places or turn them off, but we can’t because there’s people in there, like kids.
My homegirl’s room must really suck, because she doesn’t want to talk about it. I mean if we can leave a ladder and some sledge hammers, can’t we put a nice, fluffy bed with pretty lemons and a light and a desk?
[Laughs] Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I think -
Because I’m like, I don’t want my friend to suffer.
I think…ugh...I think whether that counts as the internal world or not...I think for me at least that’s the hardest part about DID is that there’s so much that’s just gross and awful and then also trying to not get fired from therapy.
You’re not going to get fired from therapy. Would you quit saying that?
Okay, next.
Okay, what about the external world would you change?
The external world?
Mmhmm. You know, the outside world?
I would take the house that we have moved into, which is amazing and for our outside family...I would take it out of the city and move it to the country but then also still be across the street from the therapist like we are right now at the hotel.
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
I don’t mean across the street from where the therapist lives, I mean from her office because the four hour drive is brutal.
Right. That part I understood. That resonated with me, because I’m your friend and I understand the brutality of a four hour drive.
Well, I didn’t want to sound like a creeper. I don’t want to bother the therapist in real life.
You’re not a creeper. You just don’t want to have to sit in the car for four hours fighting with people all the way to the therapist.
Yeah, it’s really hard. It’s really hard. But it’s worth it and so it’s still the right thing, but it is really hard.
It is still the right thing to do to go see the therapist. I wholeheartedly support you on that one, sister.
Well, thank you. Thank you very much.
You’re welcome very much. Okay, your system has traveled around the world - where was a neat place you have lived?
We have lived in Africa. We have lived in Europe. We have lived in Australia and New Zealand. We lived in France and Germany. Actually I got an email about that because I guess in one episode, I don’t even know which one, I guess in one episode I talked about France and the cheese.
No, no, it was the cheese. Yeah, you talked about the cheese -
And I got called out, because one of the listeners knows that we lived there and where we lived was actually in Belfort, which is right by Germany in the Alps, like that part of France. And so they’re like, and you also lived in Germany and you also lived in Switzerland and you also lived here. So, they got upset that I gave a shout out to France, but not to Germany. So, my apologies. Hello, Germany. We love you.
I can sing, [sings in Germany] [laughs].
[Laughs]
You have to breathe. You have to breathe.
Right back at you, homegirl.
[Laughs]
Oh god, I’m dying.
[Laughs]
[Laughs] You’re like a really nice little German message and I’m like guten tag!
[Laughs]
Woo! I’m crying. Okay, that was funny. This is good for our souls. It is! Laughter is the best medicine.
Oh good, because I’m not on any other medicine right now.
Yeah, well, I’m not on any either really. What am I taking? Oh, Excedrin Migraine. Okay.
Oh, we take estrogen since the whole cancer thing.
Yeah, I’ve got to go see if I need to get me some of that too, because the hot flashes have started and that’s just not enjoyable.
Oh dear.
What?
That’s unpleasant. They’re about to take us off, because you can’t be on it too long without it causing more problems if you’ve got a lot of cancer stuff anyway. So now they're like da da da da. So, that’s actually top secret which I’ve now said on the podcast, but every day we have therapy, we also see the oncologist.
So then you also might want to edit that out.
[Laughs] Okay.
Well, okay, let’s rephrase that. You and I will speak of that, because we’re friends and we can speak like that and blah blah blah.
Ugh, friendship.
But a podcast forum...ugh, whatever. I am such a good friend to you.
[Laughs]
Okay and you can edit this part out too, but I had this question earlier today since your birthday is coming up, do you all have a PO Box?
Yes.
Can you message it to me so I can send you a Happy Birthday card?
I will message it.
So, what languages can you speak?
I can barely speak english.
Well, duh.
[Chuckles] No...our native language...you mean like the body out of anybody altogether?
I guess. What can you speak? You do english, right? Obviously you do German.
Well, me, I just do english. Our native language actually is sign language - American Sign Language. And German, French, Hebrew. We lived in Israel. Did I tell you that?
No!
Um, some Korean.
You’re like a Taylor Dayne song - I’ve been around the world and I can’t find my baby. [Laughs] Okay, sorry. So, you went to Israel too?
Yes. And we went up to Syria and Lebanon and the West Bank and Gaza and all that. We’ve been all those places.
What about Russia?
Yes. I learned Russian in fourth grade.
Oh my god, Sasha. Y’all are well-traveled and well-spoken.
We were a military family.
Oh, okay, so you were a military brat?
I am not a brat. You’re a brat.
But that’s what they called it - military brats.
Oh, okay. [Laughs]
God, she’s so quick to get me.
[Laughs]
I’m going to get back to needed. Okay, um...oh god. Okay, you’ve already been asked that one.
[Speaks in French]
Yeah. [Speaks in French] I don’t think so.
You have to say you loved that. Hey, have you ever been to Spain?
Yes.
I love Spain.
That does not surprise me. [Laughs]
Oh, what alters can you speak with or communicate with in the inner-world?
Me?
Mmmhmm.
Well, I can read the notebook and I read almost everything in the notebook. And now we have an app on our phone that we can talk to each other so I’m hearing from more people that way. But as far as -
Did you include my friend, Taylor, in that?
No. [Laughs]
That’s so snarky. Okay, go ahead.
Um...and wait, what was the question?
Um...what alters can you speak with or communicate with in the inner-world?
Oh, okay, and on the inside I can talk to anybody I wanted I think.
But like, you don’t go over to those little spots in the attic, do you? Or is it just one big room?
I don’t have to talk to them, but I could if I wanted. I know -
But is it one big room in the attic that everybody’s in or is it divided off into separate rooms in the attic?
Um..that’s kind of hard to explain. Not everybody’s in the attic and I could talk to other people if I wanted, I just don’t want to talk to them. [Laughs] Why would I want to talk to them?
Because they’re part of the team.
Ugh. Whose side are you on?
I’m on yours and it would behoove you to work a little with the team for your benefit.
You’re using some awfully big words, my friend.
[Laughs ] Ooh! Oh! How did she like our podcast?
I don’t know if she even listened to it. [Laughs] I really don’t know.
Oh, okay. Well, she’s still talking to me so maybe she didn’t.
That would require talking to her. Which I try not to do.
Oh golly, dang. Okay, Emma, who would you say is the funniest in the system?
Me, of course! No, probably John Mark. Totally John Mark.
Yeah, I have to say he’s pretty funny and everytime he said alligators, I thought I was going to wreck.
[Laughs] He cracks me up.
Oh, he is so funny and I love him so much that I wanted to give him a donut. If I would have known what hotel y’all were at -
That’s why we can’t eat donuts, because cancer eats sugar.
Oh, that’s true. Okay, I didn’t think about that. You know, I should have thought about that and known that, but it didn’t even occur to me. I was just like get a glazed donut as big as your head. Happy, happy! Okay.
No, I didn’t tell you yet. You didn’t know. But, now you know.
Yeah, I still feel bad...could we get him a small one? Just a little one.
[Laughs] No.
Like, a birthday prize? Like here’s your glazed donut. Happy Birthday.
No, no, no, no, no.
Okay, fine. Okay, who would you say is the most serious?
So, maybe Dr. E or the one who’s the mother needs to get her head out of the sand, I don’t know.
Wait, well, that’s not fair. But, I did get to talk to her this week.
What? She does not talk to people.
Well, she talked to me. Hmm..
That’s why she’s depressed. Oh, you’re going to start a mom’s club now?
No, but I’m just saying I enjoyed my conversation with her. I don’t think she’s as depressing as you think she is. I just think you might need to give her a chance to show you who she is and then believe her.
You are so flipping therapeutic.
I’m just saying. Haven’t you ever heard the term when people show you who they are, believe them?
No. No, I have not. [Laughs]
Well, right it down, okay? So for example, when somebody shows you they are an asshat, believe them. They are! When they show they’re a liar, believe them, they are!
Ugh.
It applies to so many things. Okay, it resonates. Okay, who would you say handles rude people? Who in the system handles rude people?
Probably me or Kassi.
Yeah, I’d say you. Who would you say is the most creative?
Katie.
I would agree. Who would you say is the most like you?
Kassi.
Now, is she a little?
No.
How old is she?
Grown up. [Yawns]
You and her are good friends though, right?
Ugh, pass.
Okay. Who would you say is the most caring?
Ohh, definitely not me. The most caring.
That’s not true.
The most caring - probably John or Molly.
Those are probably the people who take pity on me and send me a how are you doing message.
Julie. Julie is the most caring.
I’m not a part of the system. Although I have really tried to think about how I can become ant man to get in there and do some [inaudible].
Maybe the husband. The husband is the most caring.
No, they have to be on the inside. You’re very caring.
Oh, I am not.
You are and I would imagine Dr. E is very caring.
Definitely not.
Why would you say definitely not?
She doesn’t care about anything.
No. I think you’re confusing not caring about anything with having to keep a specified distance in order to maintain her ability to do her job which pays your allowance.
I feel like you just said something really important that I did not understand at all [Laughs]
Right, well you’ll hear it on rewind.
[Laughs]
You’ll hear it on rewind. It’s all good. Okay, oooh, here’s one. Okay, do any of the alters need glasses or hearing aids?
That is a good question. The body is totally deaf and so if we don’t have our cochlear implants on, we can hear nothing. Nothing. Because we have no auditory nerve and so the cochlear implants bypass that so everybody needs it. Not everybody knows how to use them and not everybody knows how to change the batteries, but we have to have them to be able to hear anything at all.
We have glasses that are needed more some than others and some of us don’t wear it. Does that answer the question?
Yeah, that was intriguing too. So, you were born without your auditory nerve.
No, they got cut in surgery for the cochlear implants.
Oh, okay. Huh. Those things are fascinating by the way. They’ve done so many good things for people.
Yeah, ours now are so small. We have the Kanso ones so they don’t even sit on our ears for the first time in our life, there’s nothing on our ears. Well, our glasses, but I don’t have glasses. But they’re just a flat egg on the back of a head. [Laughs]
The disc things, right? Like they have a magnetic attachment kind of thing?
Yeah, they stick by magnet. Yeah.
See, that’s cool. Y’all just are awesome. Okay, if you could go anywhere in the world, where would you want to go and why? And obviously it’s not Africa.
Therapy. [Laughs]
Really?
Not to talk though. [Laughs]
I was getting all excited there for a minute. I was all like…[claps].
Not to talk, just to be there. It’s so safe there. I don’t know why it’s so hard. [Laughs] I would go somewhere where I could climb hills or mountains or walk in the woods - not creepy woods. Not creepy woods. Or like kayaking - I love to kayak. There would be water involved, whether it was a river or a lake or something.
My friend, Emma, and she said she was hiding. Was that her or you?
Ugh, that was Emma. Emma’s always hiding. She’s a walking panic attack. A big ol’ wimp.
That’s what I was thinking. So anyway, I was worried about her hiding because she didn’t feel safe and so I said are you hiding in the closet or are you just hiding in the room? Like, what’s the deal? Or are you hiding in the bathtub? Where’s your hiding spot?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I’m sure you were all eyes on that message. And then she was like, okay, I’m out of my hiding spot. Because I was like, you just need to remember that you’re in a safe place. Your room is safe. You have a lock. Ain’t nobody coming.
Ugh.
Let’s not go in the closet for no reason.
I don’t know why it’s hard. I think maybe we’re crazy. [Laughs]
It’s not that you’re crazy -
We have gone off the deep end.
No, it’s not that you’re crazy, okay? The problem is, in my opinion on the outside looking in, right, you all have worked so magnificently to stay hidden, guarded, built walls the size of China - The Great Wall of China and gone to such exponential effort to not have any kind of attention on yourselves, others or have yourself involved with others, right? You’ve been very singularly invested, but not because you didn’t want to be, but because you had to be. Because people kept taking advantage of you in a way that was not kind or considerate or understanding and they did that because trauma survivors, in general, including myself, can be vulnerable people and can be easily manipulated into situations of unsafe whatever - circumstances. Did that make any sense or did you go to sleep?
[Laughs] I did not go to sleep. That was just a little too real for me.
Oh, okay. Well, you know you can put it on rewind later and you can take it in. Okay...see, she gave me such a hard time on the last time, because she said you drop truth bombs.
[Laughs]
Here I am, living my best life, dropping the truth bombs. It’s called authentic. Okay, so, moving on. What is your goal as a system as far as do you want to integrate or do you want to work to become a more cohesive unit?
No and no. [Laughs] I’ll pass. I’ll pass this question.
So, yes, you wouldn’t be lost, right? You would be gone. You would just be part of the team in a more fuller capacity, right?
I pass. I pass.
You don’t need to pass. Just listen.
No.
I’m telling you from the friend perspective.
No, I pass. [Laughs]
Would you like to have your own body in the external world if you had the option?
Um yes, if it did not have cancer. [Laughs]
Well, we can’t control those things, but maybe if you had your own, it would be a different genetic cesspool and you wouldn’t have to worry about it.
Well, what I can control is not being the one who does chemo. [Laughs]
That’s awful. Okay. You know what? Yeah. I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole. Okay. My friend is a hero. Okay. Does your system have any fragments?
No.
But you are poly-fragmented.
Oh, wait. I thought you said do we have any friends? [Laughs]
No! I know that answer. It’s one and her name’s Julie.
[Laughs]
And let me tell you, folx, it’s really hard to make them happen. So, good luck to you!
[Laughs] Oh wait, I got a question by email. Hold on.
Oh, did you? Good! I’m crying. Let me get a tissue.
[Laughs] I got two by email from the website. Charlotte asked if different ones of us have different religious beliefs and if there are religious differences, how does this play out...oh, she was referencing...I guess we said something...I don’t know if it was on our interview with you -
We talked about how you took your earrings out, that means you’re holy.
Oh, yeah, yeah! Your joke, right? So someone wrote, do we have different religious beliefs and if there are religious differences, how does this play out with the husband and your community? And then she said I’m wondering if maybe someone like Sasha wouldn’t want to comply with all the teachings. [Laughs]
Oh! That’s the truth.
And if that might cause some difficulties. Do you all just make an agreement to keep certain moral religious codes, even if religion is not your thing?
Oh no, no, no. I’m sorry. It was from Hannah, not Charlotte.
Oh, hi Hanna from Charlotte! Is she from Charlotte?
I don’t know. I got confused on that, but her name is Hannah. I will answer this and it’s totally just from our experience, not trying to get all preachy or churchy.
Right, we don’t want people mailing bibles. We don’t want people sending us scripture. We don’t want to know whether or not we’re going to hell. Go ahead.
Don’t go to hell, Julie. [Laughs]
I’m running the train, okay? I’m driving the train.
Okay, so what I can say -
You’re on the caboose, right behind me. We’re going together. Okay.
What I can say is that I’ll have to put a trigger warning on this episode. What I can say is that for us religion is a really tricky issue, because our father, like the body’s father, not my father, but do you know what I mean? The body’s father was actually a music minister in our church and it was a very evangelical kind of church.
Like pentacostal.
No.
Oh, okay. Gotcha.
No, but so we grew up in that kind of church. But also, there was other stuff that I mean...but he was obviously one of the abusers and there were other issues that made that more complicated so it’s hard for some of us anyway to deal with church-related things.
Right.
When we were in foster care and adopted the first time, that family was Catholic and so we were put through Catechism classes and learned about Catholic things at that point when we went to school. We were at little christian schools for college and we during that time went to synagogue and then also moved to Israel and stayed there for awhile. And so there is one or two that have a lot of Jewish understanding from those experiences.
And then Molly obviously, after Dr. E...okay, I don’t even know how to tell this. This all sounds so crazy when you try to put it together with one body.
Molly used to be a Chaplain in the hospital.
Well, yeah, so Dr. E already finished her doctorate, was already licensed as a therapist, already finished postdoc, and Molly went back to school to get a third masters. And she has a masters -
In theology, right?
She has a masters in Hebrew and Jewish studies and so Molly is really good at working with a lot of people from different faiths and whatever chaplain’s do. Not in like...I have to be really careful about how I say this, because I’m sensitive to it and I know people who listen are sensitive to it. Molly is not like a preacher in your face kind of person. She and all of us as a system have a very distinct...like who...what our faith is and our faith tradition is very, very different than like who God is is different and crazy people who do stuff in the name of God. Does that make sense? Or like -
Absolutely makes sense.
Legit faith, whatever that looks like to you -
Legit christianity, like what you would consider legit christianity. Not somebody who goes to church on Sunday and then acts another way Monday through Friday.
Right. And any faith, even besides christianity, any faith that is like an authentic relationship with learning what love means and what compassion means and what receptiveness and openness and community and all of these things mean. Whatever that looks like for you is very different than organized religion or abuse through organizations or groups or things like that. And so for us, it is something we’ve had to work really hard at and done it very intentionally and consciously because of some of our background.
So, as far as complying with things, that is a whole different layer, because when we were diagnosed initially, when we were 17, we were inpatient for awhile and at that place, we came up with some very general rules with those of us in the system who could cooperate with that and participate with that that had to do with safety. It had to do with not harming the body at all. Not returning to the abusers in some ways and it also had to do with things like not participating in drugs or alcohol, because of the things it exposed us to. And so this fall will actually be our 10 year sobriety date. And then -
Which is awesome! Kudos to you. Awesome.
Thank you. Thank you. And then it also included other things that we’re only just now started to work on. So, I know that’s a lot and a lot of nerdy answers and could maybe be its own episode, but that would be my initial answer to Hannah and we can talk about it more later.
Right. Well, and also too we should also say that for a lot of trauma survivors, a lot of them have it related to things that had to do with religion or the perception of religion.
Yes.
And so we want to be cognizant to not trigger them unintentionally so that causes them more trauma than it’s worth answering.
Right. Right, right, right.
So, that’s just how we practice good boundaries.
Thank you so much. [Hums]
You know who I’m surprised I haven’t heard from? Calling...sending me a message to say I want to do a podcast with you?
Who? What?
You know who I’m surprised hasn’t messaged me to do a podcast?
Who?
Our friend, John.
[Laughs] He...I mean, here’s what’s crazy about that...he is actually super shy.
I know, but he super loves me. I’m surprised he hasn’t said something. If it was in reverse and it was him, he would have been like...we would have done it and whatever, but you would have sent me a message telling me you’re jealous. [Laughs]
[Laughs] That’s funny. He has talked...I don’t know why, but something between him and the therapist, they are bonded. He has talked to her than he has ever talked to anyone at all about anything and -
He’s funny.
Even at home, he will sometimes watch a movie with the husband or play games with the husband, but not very overtly. He tries to sneak in and sneak out like he won’t be noticed. But -
He’s kind of like a bull goose in a china cabinet. He’s not going to be unnoticed.
Oh, the other email from the website was Connie.
Hi, Connie!
And she heard our podcast from our interview with Susan Pease Banitt and was just saying hi. There was not a question. Sorry. Hi, Connie!
HI, Connie! Hey, and we got a nice message from our friend Meghan. Right? Meghan?
Meghan. Do you know what Meghan did? She sat outside the hotel after the conference and waited with me while I had to get on the shuttle back to the airport. How nice was that?
That was super nice and I appreciate her doing that for my BFF.
Yay! A shout out to Meghan.
Shoutout to Meghan - whoop whoop!
[Laughs]
Okay, so let’s see, did we answer the question...oh yeah, we didn’t answer this question. Does the system have any fragments?
I don’t know. Do we have any friends?
Fragments!
Fragments! What does that mean?
Fragments. You know like two-dimensional alters that have one job, one job only.
I don’t even know what that means. So, I’ll pass. Someone else maybe knows.
Well, but, Taylor is poly-fragmented. Does that count?
What does that mean? I’m poly-what? I don’t think I’m allowed to be poly anymore.
No, well, Taylor’s got multiple Taylor’s in her. Remember?
Yeah.
Isn’t that poly-fragmented?
I don’t know. I’ve never heard that word.
Well, right it down sister. I think it is. So, yup.
[Laughs] Write it down, sister. I don’t know.
Put it on the list as number 869, okay? Because I believe that last count was 868.
If I keep bumping all the hard questions to the end of the list, it’s going to be a really hard podcast someday. [Laughs]
Actually, I think the longer you all keep doing therapy, the easier the podcast will get.
What?
Yes.
Not if we get fired.
You’re not going to get fired. Do I need to get you a little handmade tattoo that says we’re not getting fired? And you can put it on your arm right next to N.T.I.S.
Oh my goodness.
I’m going to get this made. That’s what I’m going to do. Okay, you send me what I asked you for and I’m going to make that happen. Also, listen, when you did the podcast and you were like hello, pleasure.
[Laughs]
Okay, let me tell you. I spit my drink out in the car.
[Laughs]
I was like oh my god, she didn’t.
[Laughs]
And then you were like...you took it a step further, because you were like, I love pleasure.
[Laughs]
Bleh bleh bleh bleh. And then I’m like oh my god, I’m getting her a shirt and it’s going to say hello, pleasure and pleasure’s going to be in glitter.
[Laughs]
Don’t anybody steal my idea. If she gets that gift from anybody but me, I’m going to let you know right now, you’re plagiarizing.
That’s going to be like the most inside joke of a podcast there ever was.
I know, but that’s awesome. Oh, and then the one you said today. Oh, what was it? Because I was dying laughing and I sent it to you. Oh, I know, hi, this is Sasha, can we talk now? I was like this is the best ever.
[Laughs] Oh my gosh, we have to stop because my face hurts.
[Break]
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