Transcript: Episode 336
336. 2022 Healing Together Community Recap
Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, fighting stigma about Dissociative Identity Disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org, where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what’s unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshaw on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others. We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community - a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us, including the new monthly meetups that start this month. Go to our web page at www.systemspeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there.
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
[Note: Podcast host is in bold. Community members are in standard font.]
Hello! My goodness. That was a weekend. Some of you were not able to go to the conference, but endured all the notifications. I'm so sorry. [Laughter] But I am grateful and you're welcome here. And if there are any questions, all that is totally okay. So basically, I mean, if you’ve listened to the podcast, you know these are recaps. Just talking about what we learned or experienced. And so I just, to keep things organized a little bit, I just kind of want to walk through the schedule and we can talk about the things that we heard. But I want to just start at the very beginning.
The keynote was with Larry Ruhl. Any of you already seen his work or heard of him before this? So Larry Ruhl was first. He wrote Breaking the Ruhls. And his presentation was the keynote. It was very heart-warming. It was very intense. It was very funny, all of the good stuff, all the feels. But it was also intense. What did you experience with that? Anybody.
[Community member speaking] We really like how real he is and how you can really feel, I feel like he's authentic in his presence of being there. And so I really appreciate that.
Obviously, we're going through that right now. Both family reacting and the hateful things strangers say. I loved his list. It was so helpful, because people have been really mean. And so his dealing with the containment of people's negativity was helpful. But he said, he quoted Rilke several different times, but one of them said, “You who let yourself feel the trees you planted in childhood have grown too heavy.” That just gave me a lot to think about. He said, “I was horrified by what was making sense, but things were starting to make sense.” That was like the biggest line for me in the whole speech, about how that feeling in therapy where you're so horrified by what you're finding out and starting to understand. And I don't just mean content. Content, like the triggering details? That's always hard. But the content, but the process of realizing these were the dynamics in my family, or these were the dynamics of my trauma, and how things come about, and just being horrified by how real it is, how ongoing it was, how long it's lasted. I feel like that's something we're also going through in therapy right now. And there's that piece about what he shared about how it's [indistinguishable] but then you’re also horrified by what is making sense.
[Community member speaking] What I really appreciated about Larry is that he shared his story, and he intertwined so much of his therapist in. So it wasn't just too much with all the story. It was a back and forth of the relationship and how she helped, and the way that he had opportunities to help other people, as well as his story. It wasn't just story story story, because I think that would have been way too overwhelming.
[Community member speaking] Thank you, TogetherForever. We were having trouble getting back to Larry. We had a therapist named Linda. So we really, and she was such a good therapist. She was one of our first therapists that we did a lot of attachment work with. And then ended up having to leave her for various reasons. And it was probably one of the hardest things we've ever gone through. And so just his story about his therapist’s death and how that impacted him, and then in another situation he was talking about his mom's death, and those two things being parallel. Or his mom's not dead, sorry. Maybe it felt like his mom's death because when you like, have these situations with your family it can feel that way. So yeah. We really related to and really appreciate when people talk about the challenges and the depth of the attachment that happens in therapy.
That was, that-. So that was obviously something that was sitting in that session, to stay and not to just avoid it, because it was there was intense.
Okay. So the next, the first breakout sessions, those of us who are virtual missed them. We got rescheduled to the evening. There was a little bit of chaos and everybody was frustrated. But they handled it so well and they really apologized to us at the end. And I thought that was not just about a transparent organization, that was really modeling attunement, and noticing what our experience was as a virtual audience and also responding to it. Like they didn't just leave it alone or not think about it. And I appreciated that.
What about Chat N Chews? Did anyone go to the Chat N Chews?
[Indistinguishable due to multiple people talking simultaneously]
[Community member speaking] That lady’s talking. I'll figure out something. I went to the Therapists With DID Chat N Chew, which is a really good place to connect with people who are kind of on both sides of things. And the first one I didn't talk. And because I just really wanted to give space for other people, because I'm really fortunate to have found a lot of, two, three therapists with DID grapes in this group. And so I'm really fortunate and I hope that other people can find community. But I did talk a little bit more than in the second one. And it was good to just connect with people. And this kind of stuff is really what makes it feel like a conference, I think.
[Community member speaking] We discussed. Yeah, I went to the one for those with DID. And we discussed a lot of the questions pertain to our experiences, and being able to understand and feel connected with others regarding the experiences that we have with our others, and when we are unable to identify who's speaking, or just all who's there. So there are a lot of great questions just trying to understand the basics, if you will, of DID. And a lot of people were asking about connection. And yes, System Speak was noted on there as a place that people should come and join and get connected with other people.
That's so kind. I really, you know, I love that so much because it's not just about me. There's lots of groups out there. Different is the way people are taking care of themselves and each other, both with the boundaries but also the vulnerability. I am grateful. I really am.
The next sessions, and there was one about holistic methods, one about attachment trauma by our friend Vivian who was on the podcast with her book Losing the Atmosphere, and one that was for supporters. Did anyone see Larry again, or any of the others? Vivian's, I saw part of her sharing her story. There were lots of details there. And so that was triggering in some ways, but so real in other ways. I saw part of Larry's where he talked more about stepping away from family and handling family dynamics in ways that are healthy. One of the most powerful things that he said, that I heard, was about the intensity of being the one who was the one in the family that speaks up, who steps away, and then gets ostracized for doing so. And the other thing that he said was about how his family disowned him before he chose to speak up. So when they punished him by ostracizing him, nothing really changed. And that's actually something that we're going through right now, that is about to come up on the podcast, you’ll hear. But about these threats that come from family, or the disconnect that threatened, or that [indistinguishable] when it's actually already happened. And so it triggers all of these emotional responses and all of these mental gymnastics of inner critic or shame or punishment of I'm in trouble, I'm in trouble, I'm in trouble. Except nothing actually has changed because it was already like ostracizing you, or abandoning you, or had already not been participating in your life. So that was just a powerful piece for me.
What else did you see in that round of sessions?
[Community member speaking] We went to the mapping one that was in the earlier, first round. But we kind of switch a lot. So we just, so that's one thing we liked about digital was we just kind of went in and out of all of them. And in some ways, for us, the tech problems actually broke things up a little bit for us. Was helpful. In the chat people talked about a lot of different kinds of maps and different things they do to understand their system or communicate with their system.
[Community member speaking] Crystals, do you mind if I ask you a question?
[Community member speaking] Yes, I would love it if you asked me a question. I don't mind.
[Community member speaking] Thank you. We are very visual. And we would love to know a little bit more about, like, did they draw a map? Or how did they talk about mapping your system? For me, it's a very foreign concept. But it sounds like it could really work well. Could you or somebody else who went there, talk a little bit about how the mapping works?
[Community member speaking] Trying to think. I think they had a slideshow. And I think there is maybe some, if you can get to their-. Some other sessions had slides that you could see after. So I think they had some pictures and stuff. I feel like for me personally, whoever was fronting then was very, like wanted to teach the class or something. So it was like dominating the entire chat and dropping tons of resources. So that's probably why I don't remember their thing as much. But I remember that they had a lot of good suggestions. Mapping is like where you can, like, write the names of your system members on a paper, and you can draw like how close they are to each other. Or some people use collage of like what their system looks like, or give people bedrooms or things that they can have in the internal world to build better. The Crisses, kinhost.org, also did a lot of course in inner communication. I don't know if that helps.
[Community member speaking] Thank you, thank you very much.
[Community member speaking] We attended that session also. And some things that were really good and I think we've thought that we're important about it was, is being able to identify each of your others, as we call ours, and then to have your therapist, or things like wants and needs and likes and dislikes and such like that, that you can continue to add. They suggested a whole plethora of different apps that could be used. And I did write those down. So I can post I can post those. I know Crystal might have some of those listed, too. But we had a whole list of different apps you can use. And different formats. Like, one being like a circle with different circles around it for each of the different individuals. And then being able to just understand your system better. And your system, each person in the system, to be able to get to know each other. So that's a lot of what the mapping really seemed to be about. And just some great tools on different ways to do that.
Simply Plural is one app that we've talked about on the podcast before for communication. Are there other maps? Are there other ones that are app specific?
[Community member speaking] I downloaded a couple. And I had Mindly.
Mindly and Mind Note. And those are apps for phones?
[Community member speaking] Yeah, I download them on my phone. I have an iPhone, but I'm pretty sure it should work on other phones too.
[Community member speaking] Mind Mapping. And it also had, that has a paid and free app. There's Mind Note again. Salty. Pandas Studio. Somebody was talking about doing it with VR and using VR.google.goggles.noda. So it's a way of doing a VR, a Virtual Reality of it, using goggles. Turn into the different understandings of each different SE. And then there was Howze, H-O-W-Z-E, dot com. Were some different tools that they that they mentioned.
So the evening sessions got rescheduled because of the tech problems in the morning. There was the words one, creative writing. There was the dance one. And then there was the Call and Response with Jamie Marich. Did anybody go to any of those?
[Community member speaking] I went to the really cool System Speak one. That was fantastic.
[Laughter] What did you learn?
[Community member speaking] What did I learn? I learned, hey, okay. We have an non-emotionally responsive husband. And I learned that it's okay to let him be that way, because that's just the way he is. And I wish he was at that listening to it, because I think he would have really understood and enjoyed it. I love the way that the husband and really, like, even in your mannerisms you were relating to each other with little eye rolls and things like that. So just listening to the banter in the backwards and forwards was even helpful for my system. Because even though you had all this information and stuff, the way you related to each other sort of backed it up. It was good. I really liked that you began the session because there wasn't any video, but you kept talking and laughing and chatting, and it was very reassuring. And I'm trying to think of the actual things. For me, the responsiveness. The fact that the husband kept saying that it doesn't matter who was out because he wasn't very observant. And that was really helpful too. Because what I find for my system is if there's somebody out who is anxious, or somebody who's really Little, or has somebody who's angry, they're really scared that their behavior, even if it's normal, will make him feel as if he doesn't want to be here anymore. So the fact that he is not observant in that. I said to my husband, I said, “Do you even know if I've like switched?” And he says, “Well, not unless you tell me.” And I went, “Ah, that's fantastic.” So I think I can actually now go back and talk to my system and say, “It's okay. He is a man, and men are sometimes nonobservant. And it's okay. So we don't have to be scared, because he won't leave us. He's here for the long run.” And so that, I think that was so beneficial for us. Thank you.
I'm glad that that was helpful. It was pretty fun to do that with him. It felt like it was just another podcast. Except it was fun once you could see us then.
What about the-. Crystals, do want to say about what you skipped around? Just share with them.
[Community member speaking] We skipped around, so we managed to go to all of them. Parts of us went to different ones. So we went to part of-. Wait, I don't remember if that's the name he used on the thing, talking about transgender process of transitioning. And he also did a comedy last year that was really amazing. And I think he has some stuff. He talked about some of the challenges of being out as trans and then coming out as DID, and then going kind of pulling back with the DID part, just because of how hard it is, and how hard it is with transitioning. And we tend to like, if we're in a space where they're talking about that, we'll bring that up just to kind of try to bring more awareness to some of the different issues of that. It was interesting. I am around a lot of people who are very transphobic right now. And so I'm really appreciating being in spaces hearing from trans people and I'm just reconnecting with that. And then just kind of the differences between, like for us and for a lot of systems who have opposite gender people in their system, and how that presents itself or how that is different. Because we're not trans, but we have guys. And how he talked about when he started taking hormones, like some of his, the male people started feeling more like themselves and able to express themselves amd able to front more in different ways. And then, let's see, we went to the Yes, You Can Have OSDD/DID and Be A Therapist. That one was really good. It was a four person panel. They talked about some of the problems in the field with like not having the perspective of people with lived experience, and how much stigma there is around having lived experience, and having some of the challenges of either coming out in grad school or not. One of the things that somebody said that struck me was thinking about that social work was rooted in policing, and that psychiatry was rooted in eugenics. That some of it goes back to that, and just kind of the need to revamp the system, the healing system that we have to something that's more conducive to healing and trauma and acceptance. So let's talk about just some of the different challenges and some of the different benefits. The Supporters Aren't Just Scaffolding, I found that one very triggering for some reason. I mean, I am developing some closer friendships to friendships now that are just barely, after knowing them both for probably over 10 years starting to recognize when we switch. And we don't always recognize, and appreciating that. But also, I don't know if it's just the idea of that we could be challenging to somebody, or that it could be a lot just dealing with our crisis or our different people. So I don't know. That one was a little much for us.
I think that that is a really important point. And something we tried to talk about when we presented last night was that just having a diagnosis is not an excuse for bad behavior. But also there's a lot of normalizing of, “We are all a lot of work.” Whether you have DID or something else. Or, I used the husband's example of depression last night. Of relationships are hard work. Tending to another person is hard work. And that's not because of DID or something else. And how to have compassion for that with the boundaries and self-care that we need, to do ourselves as well as in relationships.
Saturday was intense. It was hard between the tech issues, but then several sessions that I did not expect to be triggering were triggering and brought up a lot of things I didn't realize we were even going to go there. Like the earlier sessions I mentioned. And so, it is a lot to process. Like, it's, I think it's also tricksy because it's different parts of my brain. And I don't just mean different system members, but literally going into, “Yay, I'm excited to see my friends after two years,” or, “Who are we going to meet other people like ourselves.” And feeling braver than the first year we tried to go where we couldn't even breathe. You know? And get focused on connection. But then, “Oh, we're learning stuff.” And, “Oh, this is very therapy.” And, “Oh.” Like, it was so much, and that's a lot to process.
Anything else from Saturday? Unpretending, you have something?
[Community member speaking] I wanted to say two things, Crystals, about that, what you were just saying. I heard a lot throughout the entire conference about-. Ugh. Say that word again, what it is when you're getting, consent. That's it. I heard so much about asking consent. And MultiMes has been talking to me, “Have you asked consent about that?” And I think as some other people have been talking to me about that consent thing. It's starting to click in me. It seems to be Unpretending me is the person who seems to be out the most, and I'm the one who has to make some decisions and asking consent. And it's finally starting to trigger—not trigger bad, but trigger good, like a light bulb—that everything that I do, I've got other people who that's going to effect. And I need to ask them. The other thing that I'm finding, and what you were saying Crystals, I want to write it in the sky with an airplane. Like, my thing at the moment is allow everyone to be the best person, or the best, to be the best selves that they can be. Like, I really wish the world would take that on. Because if we just let every human be the best them, then we, it just will take away so much of that fear. Do you think? I just don't understand the fear that people have of other people's normality? Or anyway, that's another whole podcast, I suppose. But I really enjoyed listening to that. Because I live in a very secluded world where that's not very big in our world. And it was really good to listen to that and know how many people it really affects. It's really hard to explain. But I was really thankful. And I am still thankful.
Anything else since and Saturday? Brooke, did you want to talk about the F word? Which was family. Just clarifying.
[Community member speaking] I can talk about that. I thought it was-. He’s very engaging as a speaker. And so during some presentations, I found my mind wandering and having to color to stay present. But with his I was like enraptured. But yeah, I thought that was very interesting. It was not what I expected it to be. I guess I was expecting to be taught how to like sort of create your own, like it's called, they call it found family. I love that. He didn't call it that. Someone else called it that. But I really liked that. The only thing that, there were a couple points where I found myself feeling like I had to leave immediately. So I think just like some surprise revelations that he made that I just wasn't anticipating. So I did duck out a little early. So I would just like to say that, just because I don't have all the information.
Were there any others? You listed a couple others you went to. What about the Epigenetics? Did you want to share about that really quick?
[Community member speaking] Today? Oh, yeah, that was-. Oh, yeah, that was amazing. That was so informative. The chat was having, like, everybody was in the chat talking like so excitedly. And everybody was like, quote, unquote, nerding out. And a lot of us felt like, really validated by a lot of the information shared, especially about how, like-. The key message that I took away is that epigenetics is how you sort of get changed internally by your environment. But what that means is that you can also still change by changing your environment. So he talked about things like increased safety helps-. I'm sorry, she. Talked about things like increased safety helps, and getting into a more healing environment helps. And they even touched on why being in a more healing environment after being in a not healing environment can be so distressing. because you're sort of programmed, essentially, to survive in that environment. So when you get out of it, it can be very distressing. Which was just validating for like everybody in the comments who felt like we could never help ourselves sometimes. And we just learned the science behind how it's possible to change.
Absolutely. And a lot of her work we quoted in our ISSTD presentation last year at the annual conference. So if someone missed that and wants to hear more about that, you could go look that up.
Any others from Saturday?
[Community member speaking] Yeah, we also went to one. I’m trying to think which one was it was called. I think it's Innovative Evidence-Driven Holistic Methods of Trauma Resolution? Yes, that was the one. But they spoke about something called TRE. And I’d never heard about TRE before. And it is actually called Tension Trauma Releasing Exercises. So they provided some of those and they were really helpful. Little exercises that were pretty succinct on how to use them. So if that might be something that people would be interested in researching more. And then they also talked a lot about using equine therapy, and how some of the things that are helpful with that, because they have a trauma therapist and then they have an equine specialist, I guess you'd say, at the sessions. In their group sessions. And some of the things that you can gain are trust while you're working with the horse, how to trust the horse and trust yourself, boundaries with dealing with the horse and being with the horse on how to deal with boundaries. Confidence and communication were a couple of others that we wrote down. So and that horses are really prey animals. So as we approach them, they become fearful because they are typically preyed upon. And how they think and understand and pick up on our energy, and we can see what that’s like. But also how, when you are petting the horse, that your heart can actually become in sync with theirs. And it's a very calming experience. So the horse will come up and nuzzle against you, or what have you also, just like some therapy animals will, or service animals will, because they pick up on that energy and they can tell what you need and they can tell what they need. So I just thought that that was really interesting. Something also was called a heart map. In our hearts are naturally changing. Or that's what it was when we're around the horse, and that they can tell when we're having hormone changes. So I just thought that if anyone’s into horses, that might be something that they may want to look into as something therapeutic, that that might be helpful. And then they talked about something called Barefoot Trails. And that there are trails in different places across the country. Not all states, not all countries. But that walking through these barefoot trails, that they are set up so that you're actually feeling the earth and experiencing just grounding in a different way. And I found that, that sounds kind of interesting. We don't have anything like that where we are at, but those things did sound interesting.
Thank you.
I appreciated it on both days in the morning they opened with yoga, and I am not as strong or talented or skilled as that lovely lady was. She did a fine job teaching all of us. But it was good to get back in our bodies and to move a little bit and I appreciated that.
[Community member speaking] I missed, I missed the yoga. I think-. I'd have to say, I don't know if it's relevant, that being in Australia in a conference that's happening in Florida, Orlando, Orlando, Florida, was very, very tricky because it started at 1am for me, and 12 midnight for the yoga. And I would think, “Okay, I've got two hours before this starts. I better go to sleep.” And then I’s think, “Oh, I want to get up to the yoga.” And I’d think, “No, I'm gonna have a sleep now.” [Laughter] And get up for the other stuff. But I feel as though I’m in jetlag. And I just noticed the whole conference felt so dissociative any way, but in a really good way.
[Community member speaking] Speaking of the yoga, and the one on the holistic methods of trauma resolution, something that they mentioned was a kundalini yoga. That that's a certain type of yoga that really is good for dissociation and complex trauma, and about something about the psoas muscles. And they also said that whistle in different ways, and that will actually activate the vagus nerve. So all the yoga people were asking questions in that during that session to find out more and incorporate that into their yoga.
That's so funny. I don't know lots. I know we've had Lisa Danylchuk on the podcast, and she's got a book out about trauma-informed yoga. And, and I appreciate that they do these before the conferences, both for stretching and for bringing down anxiety and for grounding. I found that even though I am certainly no expert at all, I have found that my day is better if I do some stretching in the morning. So what I do every day for my practice is very simple. It's very simple, but it helps me feel better. And it helps with my pain and my movement later during the day. So I always try to do a little bit, and it's one of the things I mark in my bullet journal for my trackers that I have done it.
[Community member speaking] I was just gonna comment too on the yoga. I've taught yoga therapy before as a therapist, and like that was my main focus in school. And at the same time, it is so challenging for me, even though that's been my main focus. And in doing trauma-informed yoga, and I've studied so much in like the polyvagal theory just for myself really too, and so I can help others. But for me, it has to be like I'm sitting down and I'm really setting aside time to practice, if I I'm going to. It's generally so hard for me to teach, one, and also just to practice on whim. So I think to just honoring, like, no matter, sometimes like, it can feel like, “Oh, you know, there's yoga. I should go. It’ll be helpful.” And like, also just for me, I know I have to sit down, I have to do like breathwork for like an hour to feel any sense better than just uncomfortable in my body, to be honest, a lot of the time. And like getting okay with that, too, which I still struggle with. But, yeah, I just wanted to validate that part too, that it's so challenging to feel comfortable with that.
There's so much about it. And that, even just that self-acceptance was very encouraging. Thank you for bringing that into the conversation.
Crystals?
[Community member speaking] I like what you said, Sophia, about getting okay with kind of not feeling okay in your body. Because we have a really hard time with that. We got up early. Well, it's all early for us, because we're west coast. For the first day for the yoga and did a little bit of it, very little bit. And I, I almost think that we were like sore even because we don't move and do that. But one thing about it being digital is in some ways, it makes it easier because we can move however we want. We can make accommodations, or we can like, sit down and drink coffee and color and watch them do yoga. Which is what we did.
What about later in Sunday, in the first round? We talked about epigenetics. There was a forgiveness one, creative resources and the disaster one. Anyone go to any of those?
[Community member speaking] I did the creative resources one. And interestingly enough, that's the one I remember most. And I think it's because they did all those like meditations and things like that.
[Community member speaking] I don't know which one it was because I missed this part. But apparently, there was a half hour meditation in one of them. And so I checked in here, and I checked in on one of my other groups, and everybody's like, “There was a half hour meditation. I'm not doing that.” And I just really loved and appreciate how many people can't do meditation, and how we're so often forced into it and told that, like, it's the end all, be all. And can't remember who it was, who said like that meditation can actually be not good if you have dissociation, because it can cause flooding or it can cause further dissociation. And that was such a relief, because I'm just like, “I can color.” Like, I can do that. Like, let's just do, you know. But apparently I missed that part of whatever training that was.
We went to that and had to leave.
[Community member speaking] What was it? What was that?
[Community member speaking] That was the Resources one, and I was in that. I didn't think it was for half an hour. Maybe I disappeared, or whatever. But what the lady was doing is she was doing some sort of grounding. And then she moved into—oh I wrote it down—connectiveness or something, connections or something, and it was all about like putting your feelings in a chest. And I'm thinking, “I thought we’re not allowed to hide our feelings in our chest. That's the problem, isn't it?” What I really found it a bit tricky, though, because there was this one lady, and she was writing on big posters the whole way through. But I didn't know what she was doing because she didn't take a photo of the posters, or she didn't show the camera. But I wanted to say about the beach, and stand barefoot on the beach, you're supposed to be able to feel the ions of the earth. And I found that really interesting because we don't wear shoes on our feet as much as possible. So we're always putting our feet on the ground and stuff. And I had never actually stopped to see if I could feel the air. We feel the ions in a storm coming, which is fantastic. But I'd never knew. And is it just the beach? Or can you do that on the ground, like in the garden? So I was finding a lot of the resources quite interesting. There was a lot of them. And there was so many people talking about these resources. They just kept going back and forth to the other ones. I don't know why I remembered that one so much. I found it good and annoying at the same time. But it was good. I don't know why. Maybe because there was a lot of pats who came by. Maybe I was flooded by the meditation, Crystals. Very nice. Anyway I’m going on. Please forgive me.
Well, there's some there's truth to that. That's why we had to leave. Meditation is a dissociative process. And when you have DID, when you are dissociating, that is that trance state. And so it is really, really triggering and makes things difficult. It can be helpful when there is a context of intentional dissociating, and you're in a space prepared and ready and consenting to that. But otherwise, it can be very triggering. That's a hard thing. So what about the Disaster one? Did anyone go to the Disaster one?
[Community member speaking] The Disaster one, it was talking about PTSD and what happens-. I didn't go to it. This was just in the blurb. And what happens like in our system and how can we work things out through like disasters such as COVID and things like that. And so it, so I didn't want to hear anything about it. So that's why I didn't go to that one. I mean, I’m sure it would have been good.
[Laughter]
[Community member speaking] I attempted to go to the safety and sexuality. And first, it didn't start. We weren't in. So we were like, told somebody like, well. I don't know if we're relieved or disappointed. But then it started, and then they could not figure out how to mute the room. And so some guy's voice in the room, you could just hear that people were talking, and we could not handle it. We were so worked up about it, trying to fix it, emailing them, putting stuff in the chat, messaging our friend who was in the room to try to fix it. Like, that was our entire focus. And we felt so bad for the woman who was presenting and doing a really good job on this really really hard subject. Finally, we just had to tell our ourselves, like, “Not your job to fix this. And if you're this upset about it, maybe you're not supposed to be in this session. So go to a different session.” That's what we did.
Way to take care of yourself, though. That's a big deal. Good for you.
[Community member speaking] We went to that session as well, just for a little while. I think I followed your example, Crystals. And I realized, “I didn't have to be here if I don't want.” So I did a lot of switching around in that type of wherever that section of time was. And it was interesting because she first gave a definition of what sexuality is, but I didn't understand what that was. So she said a lot of good things in really good ways. But I didn't-. It all went over my head. I was trying to-. What I really wanted to hear from her was-. Gosh, how do you say things like this on a podcast? But how, how do you feel-. Like, if you're in a partnership, how to navigate that whole sexuality in a partnership, when there's one who's asexual and their partner isn't asexual. She didn't talk about that very much. I don't know if she even did. So I got really bored with that and had to leave. I'm sure it was helpful for some people, but it for me, it just went around in circles. I don't mean to criticize. I really like listening to her voice. I just didn't understand what she was saying. But that could just be because I have issues.
[Community member speaking] I feel like that. I went to that one, too. And I think it was really challenging. I feel like it was a really challenging topic that she was tackling. And I really wanted to hear, I think a bit more, about Littles in a system that's sexually active. And, you know, yeah, just how to navigate that. And also if there’s switching that occurs during intimate touch and things like that, too. And it was, it was really difficult because I felt like I had so many questions, but then at the end we ran out of time. And she said, “Oh, I have like 99 questions,” or something like that, some crazy amount of questions that we weren't able to get to. But I think it's cool that she's talking about it. And it's something that I hear, I Googled, you know, and got so many different answers around like Littles, and how to take care of Littles, and different situations, and what is healthy interactions, and-. I don't know. It's just really complicated. So I wish I would have heard more of that.
We talked about that briefly in ours just a little bit, in that with Littles it would be just as important to take care of them in the same way you would any outside kids. That it's not appropriate for them to be involved in sexuality, and that consent with any part who is involved with sexual behavior is absolutely consensual. And that includes if they're switching. And being aware of, are you switching because there is someone who wants to participate to help? Are you switching because someone is rescuing you from that? Or if you are switching because something has absolutely triggered you, and you need to stop. What matters is that we're responding. So whether you're responding to your partner, whether you're responding to yourself, whether other parts are responding to that, or whether you are responding to a trigger. Like, you need to know, it's learning, and it takes practice. You need to know like, I know, that's easier said than done. But it takes practice of knowing-. Like, we use trigger a lot. But trigger means something from the past has come up. It means something has been set off. It means-. So it's not just the content or the sexual touch, it means there's a process happening. What is the process happening? What is the underlying need that is showing up through that process, and how can we respond to that? How can we tune into that? How can we meet that need? How can that need be noticed and reflected and met so that whatever the experience is, and whoever is involved, that it is a healing experience and not a harmful experience. So that's something we can talk about some more. I know a lot came up in our session, too, last night. So maybe the husband and I can talk about that more. He'll be super excited. And we can address that a little bit.
[Community member speaking] We attended the Psychostructures. I don't know if you've jumped over that, or if you want to hear about that? Sure. I thought that that was, it was really, really good. She created structures to basically represent things like trauma and disorganized attachment, and some of several other things. But she had like each of these different houses that represented stuff, and each of the others contributed to it, different sides and within the house. And then she would actually write down what each piece represented. And there was a story and a meaning between every piece that was for every maybe a section of pieces that were together. So she had one piece for disorganized, and it was a little character running away. And it was a bird house with all these different pieces on the side, a small bird house that she painted. And that's how it all started. And I thought what a great way to communicate. And she said that there was a lot of communication inside as a result of this. Like, whoever picked a piece to put in, it turned into a dialogue with the inside pieces. Then she would take that pic. And I don't know if I talked about this earlier, but she would take that image and send it to the therapist along with a breakdown of what each of the pieces were about. So that the therapist at times would then tell her when she was in a bit of virtual therapy session to take down that one of those and they would talk about that based on what was going on. She said that the therapist really leveraged that in so many positive ways for therapy for them. And then they had a, she had a dollhouse that was not, nothing was in the dollhouse. And they turn that together, meaning everybody inside, turned that into basically a meeting room with different meeting spaces and stuff. So everyone didn't have to be like just around the table. But they could be in different places and also be connected and hearing each other. And it was just set up for each, you know, musical people and those who are artistic and those who like to write and so on and so forth. It really, I mean she, she actually had them set up around the room apparently for people to go and be able to look at them and find out more about them as well. So that was really a great presentation also. They did show us. They actually had a slideshow of every picture slideshow. Every single one. And they ran those by for us to be able to see each one of them as well. which was which was great. But it was all about safety and verbalization, and it was it was really good.
I'm glad you got to see them.
What about the very last round of sessions? Did you see any of those? An Exploration of DID, Ask Your Body Not Your Brain, What I Learned From Simone Biles, Healing Relationships.
[Community member speaking] I went to the Healing Relationships With Self one. There was so much good information. I really should have took better notes than I did. But I found I got the most from the talk about the how to build your relationship with persecutor parts. There was a lot of like really good tips and things for that, like, you know, approaching it with being kind even if it's something that you don't like, kind of thing, and trying to find common grounds, and just some stuff like that that I found was very helpful. We're just, you know, thinking about some of the things like even though the reactions may be more extreme than what you think would be appropriate, that maybe there's some red flags that they're seeing that you're not seeing, kind of thing. And I just, it definitely gave me something, a little different way to look at the whole thing.
That's amazing. It sounds like you got a lot on that. I appreciate when they are helpful for different kinds of parts, too. Because lots of times, especially when we're in person, only one body can walk into the room, right? [Laugh] So there's so much going on in the head. And I really like when there are lots of different opportunities for different kinds of parts and different parts to be able to participate in practical ways. That's great.
[Community member speaking] Oh, sorry, I was gonna say they did talk about like different relationships with different parts, as well. I just didn't write any notes on the other stuff. That was just the main thing that had jumped out to me.
That's fantastic.
Unpretending, did you find your notes?
[Community member speaking] No, I didn't. But J triggered-. I kept using that word. Jay reminded me of some stuff. So it was all about allowing your persecutors, and talking to your persecutors, and talking to everyone, and giving everybody that opportunity to talk. And then when they come out and if they're angry or something-. I think I might not even be in the right session at the moment now. But like, “Oh, yeah, that's really cool. I like that you're here.” I don’t know. That might be in another session. But it was, I really, really like just the talking and the communicating to everybody, and that they don't have to be persecutors after that. And they can learn to love their Littles and not be so mean to their Littles, because they realize the Littles and then that they are making more sense to the persecutors, and the persecutors don't have to be scared because they have to actually protect us. And then when they’re not so scared, then they can be kinder to the Littles. And there's a lot of stuff going on inside of me that really related to that. And I was, I was so enthralled. And it was just so important to be able to go. This, this can actually move. Like, this system can actually start working together. I can actually do this. And it was really, really helpful. Thank you.
[Community member speaking] I actually didn't take notes for other sessions. And then I like have this like five pages of notes from this one. So it must have been a good one. Which is funny because I did not want to go, which tells you like I always got to do the things I don't want to do. But yeah, she talked a lot about building communication inside, especially for parts who are struggling to communicate, which is very helpful for me. She made a big emphasis on holding space, which is basically letting any part express themselves, and if they have difficult emotions, letting that happen. And basically like teaching everyone what you didn't know growing up, which is that all your emotions are okay and it's safe to express them. She spoke about persecutors, definitely. And she said that we should approach them with unconditional love and forgiveness because they aren't used to this response. And she said you’ll probably have backlash. You probably won't go smoothly. But essentially, over time it will teach them that maybe their preconceived notions about you are not 100% accurate, if you're always kind. And she said a good way to handle them is-. Well, not handle them. But how to get them to engage with you is to figure out why they act the way they do, versus their actual behavior. And she said a good way you can phrase it if they're not being very nice is to say something like, “Let's find a way to say what you want to say that's easier for us to understand.” Like versus like being mean. And she made a few good points about, she said, one thing she said was, “We need to be accepted for who we are before we can change.” And that really like hit home for me. And then she just said like, “We'll always like revert back to old behaviors when we feel like we're not being accepted.” And I was like, “Yes, explains so much.” She's said, “In order to build bridges between parts, we have to move from a space of judgment to a space of mutual respect.” And she also said, “This process is not going to go smoothly.” [Laugh] And so that was actually really encouraging. [Laugh] Because I feel like it never goes well, but I try it. She talked about how persecutors will escalate their reaction style if you ignore them, which was interesting for me to hear as well. Which explains a lot, honestly. And she talked about how when persecutors are being especially critical of anybody in the system, that it's not actually about-. So if they’re being critical toward you, it's actually not about you. She said that their reaction is in response to some of their own deeply held fears and wounds, and they don't actually usually want to hurt, it's usually self-protective. So if you can figure out what it is that they're trying to protect, that can help get to the root of the issue. And then she also said something cool. She said, “Trauma has robbed inside parts of knowing, it has robbed some inside parts of knowing who they are,” which is why it can be difficult to know about a part or for that part to even know what it needs, what it wants, what its name is. For me, that's a big thing. Like some get really mad when I ask them what their names are. [Laugh] And so, she said, in some cases, they're just so stuck in acting and trying to keep the body safe that they just have never had a chance to learn. And so that was encouraging to me, because sometimes I feel pressured to like know all the answers and know all the parts, and I just don't. And she said that a good tip with that are, something that she found super helpful in her own therapeutic process was when she learned to let go of knowing who is who. Which is also helpful for me, because a lot of the times I'm like, “Who was even out front?” Like, “I don't even know what's happening right now.” So that was encouraging. And then she also said that-. I like, personally put into the comment box a question about what do you do if a part is having a struggle and they don't know how to help themselves, and you don't know how to help them, and then like everybody else behind you also doesn't know how to how to how to help them, which causes panic, personally. And she said that the best thing she can say is that it's not, you have to remember that it's not your job to solve the problem, and that if you try to solve their problem for them, it might disempower them. And so if no one knows what to do, the best thing you can do is just hold space for them and empathize with them in that moment, and just let them know that, you know, you're not going to leave or, you know, force them to be different. So I'm definitely going to try that next time. And then the coolest thing she said, which is the last thing I'll say, was that she said that parts can have dreams that you don't remember. Which was so cool for me, because I wake up drenched in sweat sometimes and have no recollection at all of like having any bad dreams. And so I was like, “Oh, clarity.” So yeah, that's my notes.
Thank you Brooke.
Together Forever?
[Community member speaking] I just have a couple of other things that I picked up from that one also was to remember to keep in mind compromise over control or trying to fix or help or change anything. And to just really focus on finding a compromise with those persecutor parts, or really any part that there's a disagreement, to help them to learn to compromise. And then remembering that there needs to be a balance between internal and external relationships. Like we can't just focus on internal relationships. We've got to also have external. And that we should not eliminate external relationships because we have those internal relationships that feel really safe, because that defeats the growing and healing to be able to be in the world to whatever degree. And, let's see, there was one other thing. That about love before behavior. First part, first each persecutor needs to know that they are loved before we can even address or talk about the behavior. Because if they don't, there's just going to be, you know. It's not gonna work.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and sharing with us some of the things that you heard or learned. My last question for you is just simply how do you feel after all that? Besides worn out.
[Community member speaking] I wish my internet had been working because I would have loved to see more of the sessions. Because outside of their tech issues, where I had no power I was having issues as well. And I really enjoyed it. It’s the first ever conference or anything like that I've ever attended. So I really loved it.
I think that's so true for all of us with anything of technology. It works great until it's not. And that's hard. But also, because they tried, like we all had, it was accessible to us in ways it would not have been.
Anyone else?
[Community member speaking] We learned that there was one session that extremely triggered us. It was really traumatizing us, actually. And we tried to stay for more than another second, we tried to stay for another minute. And it just got worse to the point that we had to shut everything down. And we were in complete reactivity mode. So just to realize shut things down faster, get out sooner, and realize that that's okay to do and to always remember to take care of ourselves first when we're feeling that first reaction.
Part of trusting ourselves. Part of trusting our system. Yeah.
Unpretending?
[Community member speaking] Oh, I finally found my notes. But I thank you for everybody else who said all that stuff, because I'm going, “Yes, that's exactly it. That's what they said.” So I'm really thankful. I found that I've done what I would do in a pressured situation, with just push through everything is for this right now. And I know now that I, my system will have the fallout afterwards. And the good thing is, I have learned from this community and from a lot of other, like even this conference, how to now go and ground myself and be gentle to my system. I'm really, I'm really interested in putting some of this stuff into practice. And I'm looking forward to listening to when the podcast comes out. Because I find that when I hear things, I don't hear it until the second or third time. And so I've learned a lot. I feel very empowered, I would say, and very connected. And it's kind of a little bit sad that it's over. There's a part of us that is sad. But at the same time, I can say to them, “Let's use some of these techniques. And let's embrace the next season as we keep going.” Yeah.
It's a beautiful thing. I think it gives us something to look forward to for next year. But also it reminds us how important it is to connect with each other. And that's one of the reasons we started the Community. And it's one of the reasons that we keep coming back every week, even when we're anxious. And, “I don't want to do zoom group, I didn't want to do zoom group.” [Laugh] But like, who needs more therapy, right? But then we always feel better after we always do.
That being said, this was a lot. It's a lot packed into a weekend. It's a lot squeezed in and overwhelming, even though most of it was a very good experience. But remember that even with a lot of good, that is still dysregulating some. And so definitely please take care of yourself tonight, take care of yourselves tomorrow. Be gentle. Think of it, it's a time to think of it as like the waves in a pond, right? Like you're gonna feel better. And then there's another wave of it come through, or another insight come through, or that overstimulation coming through, something. And so not just the grounding, but being patient with yourself over the next week even. That these waves are sort of coming through, and just go, “Oh, that's what's happening. It's okay. I can write about it, or I can talk to my therapist about it, or I can do some grounding stuff or go on a walk.” If you come home, and you can just do the things, whatever it is that your system is comfortable with that you already know how to do. Coloring, Crystals talked about that. We have our meetups next weekend. Like, just taking care of yourself. Not just in the moment, or, “Oh, I'm going to go to bed early tonight,” or whatever. But in that whole recovery phase, because so much is coming through. And even though it's fantastic and such a good experience in so many ways, it also puts everything on shuffle. And all of those things like the dominoes, right? It has to go all the way through the system. And it also stirs things up because we got all these insights, and these unexpected things, and what was it that Larry said? You know. And it just is going to take time to process, and that's okay. That's okay.
Also remember that that much happening in your brain may even make you extra physically tired. That's okay, too. That is your, like all that neurological processing that's happening. And that's okay too. But give space for it to happen so that you're not just irritable with your partner, or with your selves, or with your puppy, or with anything else. That there's lots of space for that just to be. And take care of your selves. I love, I love this experience. I'm so so grateful. People have been so gracious to me, to us, as we have learned that first year before the pandemic, we went in person and it was so so terrifying. [Laugh] We almost couldn't breathe. That whole story is on the podcast, if you've heard it. Like, we don't, we were not functioning. It was so overwhelming and scary. And it's just embarrassing that that's out there somewhere. But let's live stream a panic attack. [Laugh] Like, that’s what it felt like, you know? That that's just out there. But we've come so far. And we thought we would never be able to be on video. Remember? We were getting ready to have our picture taken with ISSTD, and we thought we will never be able to do this. Except now here we are a year later in Zoom land having these meetings every week, because we can heal together. But we've got to be gentle with ourselves in the process. And it's okay that it takes time. And it's okay if you need to connect with people in real life, or with sensory things in real life, to sort of process that out. I'm so grateful. Thank you for everyone.
Unpretending and then Together?
[Community member speaking] I just wanted to say, also, what helped me is how confident that some of the speakers were. That they have healed so much that they can speak so confidently about what they're trying to say. That, I looked at that and went, “I can do this?” Like, I, one day I will be confident. And I will know my system and my system will know me. And it will be good. We will be able to get there. And it might not take another 40 years. Maybe it'll only take 15. Who knows.
[Community member speaking] Yeah. Something else that was I found awesome at the conference. And it. I don't even know if it was planned this way. But a couple of you right here on this podcast were a part of it. And that was System Speak and Nicole, and that you two continued to have an environment open in between sessions when there weren't other things open. There was one session that just dropped on a dime on us. And I was like, “I can't do that.” And you weren't, yours wasn't open yet. But Nicole’s was. It was like a place to land. Just a place to go to for that moment during that transition. And the two of you doing that, I just can't thank you guys enough. Because you guys were lifesavers for us many many times when we kept going and trying to find the two of you and seeing if you were there. So thank you.
I'm so glad. I'm so glad it was there. Oh, there's Beauty After Bruises. We love them so much. Great organization and they are loving it. They are loving the journal. So, oh, my heart is full, even just getting to connect with all of you today. Seriously. Thank you for having the courage to show up, the courage to share with us. I know all of that is so much. Then we'll see you in the Community. I'm so excited. I'm also exhausted. I’m just being honest. I'm exhausted. But it was wonderful. It's a good exhaustion. And the only thing would be better is if we were all going out to dinner or something now. But then those would be all different parts anyway, so whatever. [Laughter] But thank you. Peace and love, little bees.
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.