Transcript: Episode 124
124. Tangents
Welcome to the System Speak podcast. If you would like to support our efforts at sharing our story, fighting stigma about Dissociative Identity Disorder, and educating the community and the world about trauma and dissociation, please go to our website at www.systemspeak.org, where there is a button for donations and you can offer a one time donation to support the podcast or become an ongoing subscriber. You can also support us on Patreon for early access to updates and what’s unfolding for us. Simply search for Emma Sunshaw on Patreon. We appreciate the support, the positive feedback, and you sharing our podcast with others. We are also super excited to announce the release of our new online community - a safe place for listeners to connect about the podcast. It feels like any other social media platform where you can share, respond, join groups, and even attend events with us, including the new monthly meetups that start this month. Go to our web page at www.systemspeak.org to join the community. We're excited to see you there.
[Short piano piece is played, lasting about 20 seconds]
I just want to clarify that therapy is way easier when you’re avoiding all the hard stuff, than when you’re actually trying to deal with it. Uh! This has been a difficult week for a lot of reasons.
Without even going into therapy stuff, when we got home from therapy last night, we found out that our dog died. Now, I know you just heard the dog episode where John Mark was upset that we don’t have a dog, but it’s because we do have a dog that lives with The Husband’s parents since the youngest was born with airway problems. And so the dog we’ve had since being a senior in college has now passed away, and so it’s a whole new level of grief. But we didn’t wake up in the backyard with a stranger's dog or anything, so maybe that counts as progress.
So, while we process that, and before I can talk about all of those things, let’s get back to emails and catch those up, so that you can hear our answers and we can share comments from other listeners.
Casey says, “Thank you so much for being an oasis of sanity in the online DID world.” [Laughs] Oh, that’s funny. Oh, someone thinks we’re sane. Woo! We’re trying hard, guys, we’re trying hard. Okay, Casey says, “I really appreciated the well-rounded approach you took to The Stronghold Systems article and the interview, and the responses from Peter Barach and Kathy Steele have reassured me about concerns I had and some I didn’t have before I started looking for groups for people with DID online. I have started reevaluating my relationship with the online DID communities and YouTube channels. They were an invaluable resource a year or so ago, when I decided to start finally accepting my diagnosis after twenty-ish years of denying and forgetting. It was really helpful to see that the things I experienced, other people experienced too. They got me through a rough period of denial, and that’s great, but I increasingly have the feeling of being led down unhealthy paths, and sometimes even doubt the veracity of some of the people. I know that’s a terrible thing to say, and that I’m totally not qualified to judge anyone, and I’ll never say anything to anyone about their system. It’s a self-protective instinct though, that the drama and some of the things that seem common in the online DID culture aren’t healthy for me. I don’t want this disorder to be my identity forever. Also, things like Parts of one system adopting the Littles of another system, and assuming parental roles scares the socks right off me. Again, it may be healthy and good for other people.”
Okay, that’s a true thing. That’s something that’s out there sometimes. And what’s important is two things that she said -- well, I mean, there’s lots of important things that she said here. But I want to emphasize two of them. Number one, that your system is your system, and what helps other people, or what’s good for other people, may not be what is your thing. And that is okay. All of those feelings are okay. That’s part of the beauty of diversity, right? But also, number two is that boundaries are really important in the online world anyway, but also in support groups, whether that’s in real life or online. And so it’s important to pay attention to those things, and it’s very healing for you to trust your gut and to respect what you are telling yourself, whether that’s another Part of you, or whether that’s your own intuition -- that’s part of keeping yourself safe.
And then as part of that, that thing of some people taking care of others -- I know that that has kept some people safe and meet some needs. And so respect and kudos to those people. I also am not judging at all. But I do know, at least for us, what’s very, very important is that we have healthy friendships with people who are open and accepting and safe for all of us, but also that we do our own work to take care of ourselves. I can fall apart with my friends, or The Husband, or the therapist, and still be safe, and they can nurture all of those Parts of me, and nourish all of those Parts in me, but it’s still my responsibility to keep myself together. It’s our responsibility to work together as a system to take care of eachother, and that’s important work that is part of the healing process.
And so it’s a fine line, because that can become really dangerous really quickly when it’s an expressive thing, or a conscious and agreed upon and mutual choice thing -- there may be times and places where that in some situations is helpful. And I’m not at all judging that. There are seasons where we all need that kind of nurturing.
My friend and I were just talking the other day about brushing hair, and how comforting that is. That’s just a super neutral example, okay? Or the song that we played on the cello in the last episode that we did for our friend, and it was a sweet and helpful and comforting thing, for reasons specific to our friendship. And so doing those kinds of things and taking good care of your friends, whatever Parts that are there, whether they have DID or not, you want to develop healthy relationships with those. And that’s okay.
And if we were in crisis somewhere for some reason, with one of our friends or the therapist, and someone who was Little or someone who was different or someone who was new came out, and they helped take care of them until we were grounded again or until we could -- whatever needed to be resolved -- that’s fine. And that would be a safe place for that to happen. But also, it gets pretty tricksy when you’re talking about online people and building relationships externally instead of internally.
I’m not even going to talk about the different examples of it, or the extremes that it can come in, because expression is one thing, connection is one thing. But doing it externally instead of internally, that’s where I’m just going to leave it as the boundary generally for this podcast, because that would be a whole episode to get into. That becomes a problem when someone else is doing for you externally what you need to be doing internally, or avoiding doing it internally by having someone else doing it externally -- that’s a different thing.
So, that maybe is a topic we can come back to full circle in another episode, but you’ve brought up a good point, and I totally think we need to talk about it.
So, the email continues, “I want to be able to talk with others about DID, and the internet is great for that. I also want to keep working towards better internal communication and functioning, and the internet hasn’t proven so great for that. It kind of sucks to be honest. Thankfully I have a skilled therapist with lots of experience with DID, so I’m lucky in that regard. Too many systems can’t get the help they need.”
I totally vote with them on this. Getting information or learning about DID and being able to talk about DID in a safe place -- that has been great in the online support groups. Our experience that has been frustrating with the online groups has been twofold. Number one, some of the groups require really specific trigger warnings, and some of them don’t have any trigger warnings. And the time that I’m most in crisis, and we most need to post in one of those groups, is not a time we are functioning well enough to stop and check what the rules are for that group. So, it makes it really hard to figure out which group we can post to in what situation, and getting that learned by everyone inside is just almost impossible. So, it makes the group almost inaccessible. Does that make sense? At least for us, because if you post the wrong thing in the wrong way, you get kicked out of a group. Sometimes you might get a warning, but if you’re not on and you don’t fix it -- that’s happened to us before -- one time we posted something. We thought we followed the rules, but we didn’t do it their way, and then we were gone for the weekend, and didn’t check our phone. And so when we got back online, then because we hadn’t responded or corrected something in this certain time allotted, then we were completely kicked out of that group. Like, no questions asked, no response, no discussion, no -- it’s just really, really hard.
And then the other thing is when we are able to post something, we often don’t actually get any answers. People follow the post, or people say, “Oh yeah, that’s hard.” And presence and support is absolutely helpful, but no one actually answered the question or helped us. And so it just sort of became unhelpful once we got to a certain point. And so I don’t know how group leaders handle that dynamic of being able to welcome the new people and sort of educate them, but I feel like there’s a gap in support in transitioning people into long-term -- sort of a deeper level of support.
But also, at the same time, lots of people who are able to handle groups really well, or maybe are more extroverted enough to be able to do it better than we can -- I don’t know -- but a lot of them become some of the moderators, and sort of give back to the community in that way. So, I guess this is what we’re doing to give back, because we’re not able to be on the computer frequently enough, consistently enough to be able to moderate anything. Also, that sounds exhausting. So, a shout out to all the moderators who sacrifice so much time and energy trying to do it well.
So, the groups definitely have challenges, and every group has a different feel, and a different safety level, and a different culture of its own. So, it is a lot. Maybe we signed up for too many groups in trying to just get any resources or support we could, and it kind of backfired on us that we were not able to connect in those ways. But it’s also how we met a lot of our friends who feel safe and good, as far as online people who understand DID. So, it’s kind of a fine line. We also lost some friends who we couldn't be what they wanted. And two people -- because we weren’t wanting to date them. [Laughs] That’s some problems. Some people who have been abused really, really just -- Parts of them still only feel safe when they’re connected sexually or something. And so being able to set boundaries and be like, “That’s not why I’m here” and then they ghost you, because that’s the only piece they wanted. It’s just really sad and frustrating, because they’re really precious people. And other people do fine in the groups. And it’s an ongoing sort of support of wherever they’re at. So maybe we’re just not functioning well, or I don’t know. I don’t know what the answers are, but I agree that there are some challenges.
Anyway, the email continues. Casey says, “Your podcast is different. You’re always working for your health, for your family, for real healing, guided by professionals and research. If I’m grappling with something in therapy, or in my journals, chances are it will pop up in your podcast in a few weeks. It’s kind of amazing.” Oh, that’s fun. Maybe we’re just parallel in the timing of things, and that’s all it’s about. I don’t know. Maybe you need a group where it’s like week 1 is this, and week 2 -- not really. We’re not that structured, but I’m just saying, it may just be timing that syncs up or doesn't. I don’t know.
“I’ve seen you in the Facebook groups.” Oh, and then they say their real name. I don’t want to say that, because I don’t know that I have permission. “I haven’t been around much anymore though. So, this is a really long email to say, ‘thanks, you’re awesome, and I look forward to your future podcasts.’ Also, listening to your family discuss trauma in real time with your children made me cry in the car. You and The Husband are amazing parents, and it gives me so much hope for the cycle broken, for you and your children. I hope you all have a great week.”
Aww, that’s so sweet. That was a really tender episode, and we still are talking about it. And the kids actually ask to relisten to it, because they had follow up questions. And so we had a second discussion that was so, so good. Bless their hearts. We’re not airing that part, because it was more private and specific to their own issues. But it was such a good follow up discussion, and they just are amazing, those little punks.
So, thank you, Casey, for sharing…really….really, really.
We also got an email from Kate. Kate says, “Hi guys, we were just listening to the latest podcast. You mentioned new guidelines for treatment in Australia, and it kind of sent us into a spin as we live in Australia. Could you possibly share a link to that info with us? We love the podcast. Your information has helped us more than you could ever know, and we really appreciate what you guys do and share. Thank you so much.”
Kate - absolutely. We’re totally going to talk about this on the podcast. There’s an episode coming up with some interviews that are going to coincide with the release date of the new guidelines, and we will totally share the information. Be excited. It’s coming this month. So, so excited.
Donna says, “Hi there, I sent a couple emails, and I recently heard the email podcast, but I didn’t hear my emails on there. So, do you just do a few emails at a time?” Yes, there’s so many emails [laughs]. So, I think yours have aired since you wrote this, but I wanted to follow up, because yes, we get a lot, a lot, a lot of emails. Many of them people don’t want us to read them on the podcast, so that’s okay. But, we really just take a chunk at a time. But it brings up a lot of good things for conversation, and it’s such good things that other people are thinking about as well, that we like to read the emails on the podcast, and share what we’re learning too.
So, Donna says, “I’m totally fine if you don’t have time to go through them all. I was just concerned that maybe you didn’t get them. My heart is bursting with gratitude to all of you, and bursting with genuine, sincere hugs to all of you. What a treacherous journey you’ve been on, yet you are still so grateful, and I stand in awe and admiration of your strength, and I hope that’s heard and received on your end, with my last two emails and of course, this one.”
Thank you, Donna! All Donna’s are the best. This Donna and my other Donna -- love my Donna’s. You guys are great.
Okay, so this email is from a mom and I don’t want to read the name, just to protect the child, because the child is a minor. And so just out of respect of that, I’m not going to read the name. It says, “I’m in one of the online support groups, and did a search for a System Speak, and found a thread. I just wanted to thank you so much for your podcast. My daughter is 15 and has been diagnosed with DID, and as a busy mom, I find your podcast so wonderful, as I can listen while driving or doing housework. We live in Ireland. She has an amazing therapist who is trained in trauma, so we are very lucky. But there’s a big stigma with mental health here, so it’s very hard to get info, because nobody will talk about it. My daughter is very private, so only a few of us in her life know about it. We have been binge listening for a week now since we discovered your podcast.” [Laughs] That’s awesome.
“I’ve learned more from you than any other information online. Thank you so much. You are really helping me understand DID, and giving me the tools to support my daughter on her journey towards healing. Just wanted to express my deep gratitude to you. You have no idea how much you are helping. I wish you all the best for your own journey. Keep doing what you are doing. Take care.”
I so appreciate that. We really, really need that encouragement, because this is so hard. And it’s so -- not just that it takes so much time or energy, but also just emotionally and mentally and vulnerability to be open about these things, and to share our process -- that the encouragement really helps us to keep going, because there’s lots of days where we’re just like, “We need to take it all down. It just needs to be done. It needs to be over. It doesn’t feel safe. Or it’s too hard, or whatever.” And there’s so many things -- but if we’re going to claim this for ourselves, with no excuses, and to be bold about it, and to learn to speak about it, and it’s really helping with therapy -- we need to just keep going. And so your encouragement really helps. Thank you so, so much.
We also got this email from BJ. BJ says, “You all may not remember this, but once in Jane’s Room, you had asked us what our purpose was with the posting, and what did I need or something along those lines. I am, or wasn’t really sure, only that I responded that I needed relief. I don’t even know what relief I was looking for, but saying it felt right then.” So, I don’t know what happened, but good job for you for doing what felt right. I hope that was helpful.
“Fast forward some months. I find myself remembering that. I’ve also found myself turning more inward and accepting of those who I share a podium with. For years I have been outwardly knit, and externally focused, even going to therapy. I always felt like I, BJ, was best at the podium. I still find myself hiding behind a screen, distracting myself, or being the first one into work, and the last one to leave. But I’m not writing this to do verbal trauma vomit. I wanted to apologize for interactions with you all that may have felt overwhelming. Secondly, I wanted to thank you for those words that I remember the most. I sometimes still think about them, especially when those old habits of returning to rooms and being in the moment with people -- so I don’t have to work within and try to connect with the past that wasn’t mine to remember. The problem was in doing that, and I still do so at times, so continue to work on that whole self-correction thing -- there were people within attached to my past, and I wounded them. I feel like I have neglected those who have allowed me to live a life relatively free of abuse. The podium is 52 now, and I can’t change the past, but I can try and work on ways to try and correct the future. And I heard you in that simple question to me. Who would have thought that something that felt so divisive at the time could be a catalyst for change. My intent” -- this is so beautiful, by the way…like, totally made us cry -- “my intent was never to add any stress to you, or any Part of your system. I am the one my insides get annoyed with as well, especially a protector I have. So, I know what a pain I can be. It truly isn’t purposeful. It feels almost reactive without having a trigger, or a known one anyway. I have made an honest effort to change, and I see that insider responding in a healthy manner back. It is amazing, the empathy I’m starting to learn by having that connection with him. It wasn’t that I didn’t care. I think it was more that I never really knew how to. I have said this once, and I will say it again, the light you have and show in your podcast, and your willingness to let some of your Insides out, pales in comparison to the light that shines within all of you, in ways and words that can’t be described. Your system is very brave. Keep on taking care of each other, learning about each other, and embracing the whole of who you are, and what you all have done to build a bridge of understanding and acceptance. As always, and with much respect, BJ”
That was seriously, maybe the most brave and authentic email I’ve ever read in my life. [Laughs] That was amazing. And I’m laughing, not in a mocking way, but in a just… outright awe. That was incredible. So, I think, if I remember correctly, and forgive me if I don’t -- this is a friend who was in one of those online support groups, but was posting a lot, like a lot, a lot, a lot, and to every single thing. And finally, we were just like, “Hey!” [Laughs] Because of me and my mouth. Right? I’m working on myself to control my mouth on two points. One, as a defense with trauma, right, like it’s one of my jobs just to run my mouth and to protect us. Number two is deaf culture is just very blunt. So, growing up as a deaf person in deaf culture -- you just say things how they are, and it’s not what they call a hearing sandwich. Those of you who are hearing, what you do is you say -- at least in America -- I don’t know -- you say something nice, and then you say the truth, and then you say something nice again. And you wrap it up in this dramatic hearing sandwich where you have to sort out what the person’s actually saying. And it can be so confusing. And you have these expectations you never actually say out loud. And you think people know what’s wrong, and they should know why you’re upset with them, but you never tell them, and then the person is supposed to guess. It’s so much drama, and we don’t speak drama.
Anyway, so because of all of these reasons, we’re just super direct, and I just say things as they are, me more than others. But you know, whatever…and so what happened in this group was I finally was just like, “Hey” -- not at all meaning in a hating way. It was not about hating at all. It was just really to the point of, we’re either going to have to help this person or we’re going to have to leave the group, because it was so overwhelming. And it was Jane’s group, and we’re close friends with Jane, and so we also maybe felt protective of her, even though that’s not our job or our business. So, I don’t know. I don’t know.
But anyway, basically we were just like, “Hey, what’s going on that you’re avoiding? Or what’s going on -- like why is this what’s presenting? Because I feel like this is a reaching out for help, even though it looks like you’re helping lots of people -- there’s so much going on that is coming out -- I’m wondering what’s getting in or what is not getting in or what’s missing?” It felt like something was just off. And out of compassion for this person, we finally just addressed it. And everyone went all kinds of online group drama, which is not at all what we meant or intended. So, I’m really, really sorry that we started that. But what we really meant was like, “What’s going on, like under the surface, what’s going on that this is what’s presenting?” Because that’s what it felt like, was that someone was really alone and needed help, but I didn’t know how to get to them or how to help them or what I could do to support them. But again, in the world of online groups, it was all about drama, and it was all about, “If you don’t want to listen to this person, you should just silence them, or mute them, or whatever the words are.” Which, we are not tech savvy enough to know how to do, by the way. [Laughs]
And so it turned into this big drama in the group, and we actually just have not participated in that group since then, because it was no longer a safe place, even though Jane is a person we love, and it had nothing to do with her. And then besides that, it was one in a series of four things that happened in the online groups, where we’re like, “Okay, this is just not working for us.” And so since then, we’ve actually completely withdrawn, and have not participated in the groups at all. So, that’s what I know about it, and now they’re sharing their story about what was going on, and it’s actually what we were talking about earlier. So, that’s kind of crazy, not what they did, but crazy in the timing -- like, just confirming that it’s such a learning process.
And what I love about this email and the way -- not just the content of what she said, but the way that she said it is how that kind of vulnerability was so authentic in accepting responsibility for their part, but not other parts. My response was not their fault. The drama in the group was not their fault. Everyone plays their own part. So, it wasn’t that they totally martyred themselves, and I love that, because it’s super healthy that they did not do that. I love that they shared what was going on in the background, which takes such courage to share that. I love that they see evidence of their progress and growth since then. And I love that they shared with us. That’s really special, that they opened up and modeled for us, for everybody, what that looks like and what that feels like, and it really brings things full circle, and is such a demonstration of healing.
So BJ, that was so beautiful, and that was so powerful, and I really thank you for sharing, not just your story, but also your courage and your compassion, and that level of vulnerability that just sings of healing. So, thank you. That was very, very kind.
Here’s another email that they wish to be anonymous said, “I just wanted to thank you for sharing your most recent podcast - Family Trauma. I have been needing to hear those words for a long time - ‘you are loved and you are safe.’ My mom passed away from cancer last year. I have been estranged from my entire family of origin for about eight years at the time of her passing. Not once did she ever reach out and try to make amends - hence the DID. She made time for those that meant something to her, and I wasn’t one of those. Anyhow, trying to mend a lot of broken pieces, and wanting to give up seems like every day lately. I appreciate your insight and love your family shares, and just wanted to say ‘thank you, thank you, thank you.’ You are really impacting a lot of lives in a good way. Though our stories are unique, they are similar in a lot of ways. I enjoy listening to your podcast. It makes me feel less alone in this very scary world. Thank you again, Emma.”
Aw, heart breaking. And I’m so sorry and I’m so grateful that you feel connected. I would also recommend you listen to the Mother Hunger episode with Kelly McDaniel, because that’s a powerful one about some of these very same things. So, I hope you got to hear that as well.
Cece says, “Dear Emma and the whole system, OMG, this latest episode - Facing Memory Time. I can so relate to being all dressed up, having the teddy bear with me for important days in therapy, and ending up feeling just like crap, like a child dressed up stupid, dirty, ugly, and so on. I have done this so many times.”
Oh my goodness, guys, that’s why I love this podcast, because we are not alone. Uh!
They say, “I can also relate to feeling so ready to talk about something important, and the whole world falls down in my head, running and crying. Yes, it’s unfair that the ones who are hurt are the ones who need to be the ones that fix it all, but perhaps the task is better off with us either way. Just think if the ones who hurt us were the only ones to fix us also. Talk about catastrophic and maladaptive.” [Laughs] “No, we have the power to change and fix, because we are the only ones with the key that can do this unlocking. So, important tasks should not be in the hands of others, even though sometimes the feeling of wanting to give up is so present.”
Oh my goodness, that’s so profound, actually. Okay, so they said, “So important of a task should not be in the hands of others, even though sometimes the feeling of wanting to give up is so present. It is our key to do the unlocking.”
You guys, this is what I was trying to say earlier, about letting other people take care of your Littles, or whatever you want to talk about…those kinds of things. It’s one thing to make friends with or have safe relationships with, where all of you can be accepted and express yourselves, but it is your system, and it is your responsibility, and it is your hope, and it is your key -- you are the one who has the power to care for yourself, and to do your own healing. So, what they’re saying is so true about our abusers don’t have the right to that, but also, neither should we give away that right to someone else.
So, it’s so powerful what they said. It’s so huge, so profound. It is our healing to do, being accepted and nourished and nurtured, all the parts of us by the Parts of us is a beautiful thing when that can happen safely. But the healing work, we have to do. It’s our job to do it.
“We are fighters, they say, and we are survivors, and even superheroes make mistakes or need a big rest. I’m here cheering you on from the side. You are brave, loved, and make a huge difference in lots of lots of people’s lives, including mine. Thank you so much. The bear is safe with the therapist until next time. I’m sure she will take very good care of it as she does with her patients.”
She totally did. She had the bear and the backpack. Everything is okay. We got them back. We didn’t sleep much that week, but it was okay.
“I’m so glad John Mark takes care of the girls during the tornado warning. Be safe, y’all. Lots of good thoughts from Cece.”
Aw, thank you Cece. I’m so grateful for that email. We really needed help finding words to express that, and you just did it so powerfully and beautifully. Thank you.
Lisa says, “To Emma facing memory time, you are not failing. You are making progress. You are feeling the Others, maybe even some for the first time. That sounds to me like you are healing, but I acknowledge that healing is hard. But you are doing it and you are brave.”
Uh, those words of courage, we actually took a screenshot of, and had to read every day for a week. Your emails -- I can’t tell you the difference that they make, not just for us, but for other systems who write in and say, “Please don’t read my email on the podcast, but I want to tell you this and this and this.” You’re helping other people too, not just us. It’s such a powerful thing. Thank you, Lisa.
And then Chris recommends, “If you have an iPhone, check out the app ‘Diary.’ It has helped our progression a lot on the fly, for those without the podcast. Just to offer that tool. It’s passcode oriented for those who need safer places to store personal info.”
So, that’s pretty interesting. If you have an iPhone, and want to check out the app ‘Diary’, that’s what Chris recommends. That’s great! Thank you.
Barbara says, “I don’t know why some people treat others the way they do, and I know you guys had to feel scared, alone, and powerless for so long. We are so sorry for that. Those that wronged you all must have felt like they had all the strength, power, and authority over you. You are right. It is hard and scary and sometimes I guess you do have to run, and that is okay too. It was unfair. It is unfair that you have to undo the ugly of what some humans are capable of doing. I have to tell you something though. As powerful as they must have seemed, you all are a thousand times stronger. That strength shows in each of you when John Mark tries to get cooperation within, when Dr. E provides education to others, when Sasha laughs and connects, when the wife and mom manages the task of raising special needs children, in a safe, healthy, loving way, and when you show up to therapy still trying. You may not understand or see this now, but the good, safe people around you do. You all are so much more powerful than those that tried to take those things away from each of you. I may not know why those who treated you guys poorly did such terrible things, but I do know that you all are collectively stronger than they were and more powerful than you currently know. Trust yourselves and those abilities you carry within you, because your abusers don’t hold a candle to your system. Therapy will be okay next week. Just keep going and never stop trying. I’m certain they will be there waiting, accepting, and making the system not only speak, but all the more safely, stronger. Barb.”
Okay, that made us cry and bawl and cry and we read it over and over. And you were absolutely right. We went back to therapy, and that was actually when for the first time, she spent the whole session -- like, we could watch, some of us, a lot of us, more than ever before. And she was able to be like, “This is who I know, and what I know about them.” And there was no plan, no agenda, no notebook, and it was actually one of the most amazing sessions we’ve ever had. And it’s just been exponential since then. And so we’re so grateful for the therapist, so grateful for your support, and so grateful for all the help we’ve been given, and that people are given through each other, through these conversations. It’s so powerful. Thank you all for helping us connect.
Ann Marie says, “Hi Em, I just listened to your latest podcast, and I feel so upset for you. Your pain was so very hard to hear. I was wishing I could wrap you in my arms and rock you, and help you feel safe and not alone. You are so strong, so competent. Please know that you will find your own way, at your own pace. Please take care, Ann Marie.”
And that is so true. It was exactly right. We are in a new pace and a new place and in a new phase in therapy, and it’s brutal, but it’s so powerful. And every week we feel a little bit lighter. So, we keep going back for more. [Laughs]
[Break]
Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together. Maybe it will help you in some ways too. You can connect with us on Patreon. And join us for free in our new online community by going to our website at www.systemspeak.org. If there's anything we've learned in the last four years of this podcast, it's that connection brings healing. We look forward to connecting with you.